Rehabilitation for everyone?

changingman said:
It's my personal opinion that you can't "deter" crimes such as this. It falls so far outside social norms that any deterrent is unlikely to even be a consideration (although I might be wrong).

The sentence then becomes either retaliation or rehabilitation, retaliation is a slippery slope (for every case as supposedly "cut and dried", there are 100s that aren't).
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There's a third reason public safety & protection they can't offend against children if they are behind bars. For that reason serial sex offenders like glitter and Harris should be locked up for life or at least serve a heavier full sentence with no halving of sentences for good behaviour.
 
r00fie1 said:
I`m yet to be pursuaded the Death Penalty would have detered this man from committing his crimes. Nothing - even the knowledge he would end up behind bars - stopped these horrendous crimes.
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That’s the point isn’t it. Life imprisonment wasn’t a sufficient deterrent in this case.
So perhaps in the most heinous of cases we do need the final step as a deterrent.
If it prevented one monster from perpetrating their crime it would be worth it. But it is very hard to measure.
 
I mean in this case... I'm no psychologist ...but the blokes off his rocker on drugs and is a complete subhuman looney. I don't think much of anything would make a difference.
 
Bristolboro said:
Killing him would just reduce the state to the same level as the killer. Killing anything is a failure, an emotional reaction borne out of negative emotions. The state, the collective, must rise above this, no matter the offence. This is mark of civilization.
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Do we apply the same high-mindedness to war and defence?
 
Bristolboro said:
Killing him would just reduce the state to the same level as the killer. Killing anything is a failure, an emotional reaction borne out of negative emotions. The state, the collective, must rise above this, no matter the offence. This is mark of civilization.
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See I hate stuff like this. Forgiving people on behalf of others is not the mark of civilisation. I've witnessed plenty of victims in my career who wish death upon the people who have harmed them. Nothing uncivilised in that whatsoever.
 
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret said:
Well yes... But I'm taking issue with you using the high crime rate of South American countries as an example that harsh punishment does not work.
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Point was that it’s a deterrent that doesn’t work, what about usa? Significantly higher crime rates than the uk with a tougher prison system
 
Colin Warnek said:
This seems like a generalisation to me - I would be interested if there were statistics to back that up.
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Not sure if you could find stats to 100% back up any claim as every country has different social and economic differences as well as different prison systems

However Norway has the lowest level of reoffending, and that’s a prison system which has no life sentences, no capital punishment and focuses on rehabilitation
 
Colin Warnek said:
That’s the point isn’t it. Life imprisonment wasn’t a sufficient deterrent in this case.
So perhaps in the most heinous of cases we do need the final step as a deterrent.
If it prevented one monster from perpetrating their crime it would be worth it. But it is very hard to measure.
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Fair point. (y)
 
Colin Warnek said:
That’s the point isn’t it. Life imprisonment wasn’t a sufficient deterrent in this case.
So perhaps in the most heinous of cases we do need the final step as a deterrent.
If it prevented one monster from perpetrating their crime it would be worth it. But it is very hard to measure.
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I think that’s why you have to look at the best way to prevent these, and it could be raising the standard of living for the people who are most deprived in this country
 
newyddion said:
as a decent society we cannot condone murder be it state sponsored or otherwise. the cost of living crisis does bring up questions and hopefully the right ones.. as a decent society not only should this man be fed and watered and provided with shelter.. those very basic of human needs. then so too should every law abiding man woman and child in this country.. this shouldnt be a question it should be a simple fact.

then we should be moving on to why food, water and shelter are not readily available to those that need it, the same with education and healthcare. nevermind where are we going as a society.. where are we right now.. what is going on and why are we allowing it to happen?

I'm pretty sure those in power right now would love to have the death penalty, they would love the contracts for the murders, the contracts for a privatised prison service and a monetised health service cash cow.

It feels like were on the verge of either a civil war.. or a twisted lurch into a fascist dystopian nightmare. a few strikes apart it seems very much like the later is the most likely outcome.
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And it's all been deliberate, class wars and divisive politics.

Shameful.
 
JM14 said:
Point was that it’s a deterrent that doesn’t work, what about usa? Significantly higher crime rates than the uk with a tougher prison system
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It may not be a deterrent. People are going to kill other people regardless. But it's illegal and the punishment isn't strong enough.
I accept others may not share that view. That's fair enough, I'm not arguing against their views. But many are in favour of the death penalty and their views also count.
 
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret said:
See I hate stuff like this. Forgiving people on behalf of others is not the mark of civilisation. I've witnessed plenty of victims in my career who wish death upon the people who have harmed them. Nothing uncivilised in that whatsoever.
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For me it is uncivilised but we're all different and I'm lucky not having had to feel that way. There are also many facing the same difficulties who don't want to see the perpetrator killed.
 
newyddion said:
So you would throw away your life and become a murderer?
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I don’t think that’s what he meant.
Personally, I could end that persons life with no more thought than turning a bedroom light off, but, it’s as you say, what then?
In acting that way, what do you become.
It costs a lot of money to keep prisoners because we’re doing it wrong.
Where there’s hope of rehabilitation then no expense should be spared but in the example shown, I reckon I could keep that person for about a fiver a week.
 
I think the obvious point on rehabilitation is that it's only one element of the penal process.

The debate around punishment v rehabilitation has been around as long as the actually concept itself, but my personal view is that prison should be a last resort and only in cases where the crime is serious enough to justify it and rehabilitation should always be central to any custodial sentence.

In terms of prison being a deterrent, I'm not sure that it is to any significant degree, not in terms of dissuading offenders anyway.
 
r00fie1 said:
Does anyone believe the restoration of State Killing would have had any influence on this individual doing what he did?
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No, it’s just a sad fact of human life that those people who take the law into their own hands do so because at the time “it felt right” — perhaps a moment of madness for some, for others perhaps they had a motive. The sad part of it all is that we as a so called “civilized society” still haven’t solved the mystery of human mind when it comes to all things “criminal violence”, and I doubt we ever will.
 
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