Reducing International aid.
- Thread starter Same_as_before
- Start date
FatCat
Well-known member
I’m never going to be convinced that spending levels don’t matter, basic economics will tell you they do.
I was having a look - last year we gave 69 million in aid to China(yes China one of the largest economies in the world), what for I hear you ask:
“Schemes funded by UK taxpayers included a photography project to understand the country’s past, syphilis tests for gay men and improving cancer screening in rural areas.”
Now I know in the grand scheme of things 69 million is not a lot however I can think of many ways that 69 million could be spent at home or abroad. I would hope this is an outlier and the vast majority goes to the needy.
I was having a look - last year we gave 69 million in aid to China(yes China one of the largest economies in the world), what for I hear you ask:
“Schemes funded by UK taxpayers included a photography project to understand the country’s past, syphilis tests for gay men and improving cancer screening in rural areas.”
Now I know in the grand scheme of things 69 million is not a lot however I can think of many ways that 69 million could be spent at home or abroad. I would hope this is an outlier and the vast majority goes to the needy.
Primus84
Well-known member
Aha you read The Daily Mail - but of course you do!
If we called it a long term investment (which is what it is) would that make you feel differently?
FatCat
Well-known member
Well it’s not really aid then is it?
Primus84
Well-known member
Sorry that doesn't make sense?
MFP
Well-known member
So utilising aid for UK political and diplomatic interests is fine, even though various charities themselves condemned this but a few years ago because actual people in need were missing out?
There's a bigger scandal at play here than the .2% cut and that is the lack of scrutiny over how our aid budget is spent.
BoroFur
Well-known member
The Tories included the International Aid pledge in their 2019 GE manifesto in spite of a significant number of right leaning voters being against it.
Nobody then could have foreseen the Covid-19 pandemic however it does seem pretty opportunistic to row back on this pledge during a time of economic uncertainty.
It's a % of our GDP regardless of the level of our GDP. It's not like it's a fixed amount.
We are borrowing billions for all sorts of things relating to spending commitments so I'm not sure why International Aid should be reduced.
I'm predicting this will be the next Government u-turn.
Nobody then could have foreseen the Covid-19 pandemic however it does seem pretty opportunistic to row back on this pledge during a time of economic uncertainty.
It's a % of our GDP regardless of the level of our GDP. It's not like it's a fixed amount.
We are borrowing billions for all sorts of things relating to spending commitments so I'm not sure why International Aid should be reduced.
I'm predicting this will be the next Government u-turn.
SmallTown
Well-known member
Will of the people. We voted for a Tory manifesto that said we’d give 0.7%
you can’t go against the will of the people
1finny
Well-known member
FC
the problem is - what will they spend the savings on?
they have demonstrated they will fight to save 20m rather than feed starving kids
Athe the same time they defend - 700k for PR costs for one of their cronies and
21m for a go between to get one of their cronies a ppe contract.
we know their priorities
the money saved will help keep the tax burden lower on the wealthy in the uk
Joy_Division_Oven_Gloves
Well-known member
4 Billion saved...goes some way to plugging the 10 Billion gap created by overspending on PPE due to the lack of adequate preparation.
post Brexit the UK will need as many friends around the world as possible - reduction in foreign aid won’t help and will significantly reduce our ‘soft power’. However it does play to the Tory base and there will be self-satisfactory folding up of Daily Mails up and down the land as its readership identifies their next target.
post Brexit the UK will need as many friends around the world as possible - reduction in foreign aid won’t help and will significantly reduce our ‘soft power’. However it does play to the Tory base and there will be self-satisfactory folding up of Daily Mails up and down the land as its readership identifies their next target.
FatCat
Well-known member
That’s a fair point, assuming the 0.2 per cent is spent on worthy causes then as I have said I have no issue with the reduction. If it is syphoned off and or wasted as you suggest then the reduction is pointless.
Laughing
Well-known member
FatCat expecting this government to do anything other than waste the saving by passing it on to the wealthy is childish.
On a similar vein over the last 20 years or so with a reduction in the budget for NASA, which in the grand scheme of things is tiny. Several economists did some work on the NASA spend on visiting the moon. Every dollar spend was returned 10 fold in economic benefits from the science advances.
The same short sighted principles are applied when talking about foreign aid. Helping a neighbor, invariably pays dividends, but as someone else pointed out, a Britain first narrative plays well to the tory crowd. And if this sounds familiar, it's because it is.
On a similar vein over the last 20 years or so with a reduction in the budget for NASA, which in the grand scheme of things is tiny. Several economists did some work on the NASA spend on visiting the moon. Every dollar spend was returned 10 fold in economic benefits from the science advances.
The same short sighted principles are applied when talking about foreign aid. Helping a neighbor, invariably pays dividends, but as someone else pointed out, a Britain first narrative plays well to the tory crowd. And if this sounds familiar, it's because it is.
Primus84
Well-known member
Worthy causes? This is the Government who refused to extend free school meals to starving kids.
MolteniArcore
Well-known member
And this is the typical little Britain response.
If Rishi had turned round and said we are cutting foreign aid and we will use that money to end child poverty, homelessness, food bank use etc then fair enough. But they don't. So that argument is flawed.
The only reason they cut it is it plays well to the public, especially those who think like @UKLL1981. Why send it to pesky foreigners when we can waste it on our own country eh?
Foreign aid is an investment in our country and our future. But yet again this Government makes us look a harsh nation who is increasingly inward looking. We should really abandon the 'Great in Britain as we are no longer great.
MolteniArcore
Well-known member
Exactly!!! You can't go against the will of the people!!!
(Sadly it only counts when it suits them, it's the Tory way)
Chris_Boro
Well-known member
Its the usual conversation that starts with "those bloody immigrants" from the usual Tory crowd, "we do nothing to stop them coming over".
Well, you know the combined total that each of the worlds wealthiest nations pledge in international aid? It helps countless people be able to live sustainably in their own counties.
Its estimated that the UK has spent 13x more in bombing Libya than it spent in stabilisation and humanitarian costs since.
Cutting our foreign aid budget will cost us much more in the long term than the ~£4bn per year it will save now. Short sighted opportunism by a Chancellor who cares more about his image.
But I suppose we can more than make up for it in the sunlit uplands that Brexit will bring us...oh wait we can't mention that can we Mr Sunak?.
Well, you know the combined total that each of the worlds wealthiest nations pledge in international aid? It helps countless people be able to live sustainably in their own counties.
Its estimated that the UK has spent 13x more in bombing Libya than it spent in stabilisation and humanitarian costs since.
Cutting our foreign aid budget will cost us much more in the long term than the ~£4bn per year it will save now. Short sighted opportunism by a Chancellor who cares more about his image.
But I suppose we can more than make up for it in the sunlit uplands that Brexit will bring us...oh wait we can't mention that can we Mr Sunak?.
Brian Marwood
Well-known member
I wish those in favour of the cuts could visit countries where poverty is a difference between life and death and not a difference between cigs and scratch cards. To see kids truly hungry, without shoes on their feet, without education, without clean water or basic sanitisation is heart wrenching and leaves you knowing that we can and should do so much more.
It also isn't a choice of helping those overseas OR helping those here in the UK, we do have the ability to do both but choose not to. This government has without shame siphoned off critical funds to friends and associates with nefarious supply chains for essential supplies whilst simultaneously letting kids go hungry.
Yet all the while this Government is 'getting Brexit done' the neanderthals will forgive their sins. shame on you who blindly support this Government.
It also isn't a choice of helping those overseas OR helping those here in the UK, we do have the ability to do both but choose not to. This government has without shame siphoned off critical funds to friends and associates with nefarious supply chains for essential supplies whilst simultaneously letting kids go hungry.
Yet all the while this Government is 'getting Brexit done' the neanderthals will forgive their sins. shame on you who blindly support this Government.
SmallTown
Well-known member
That’s the classic hypocrisy isn’t it!
“We voted for brexit it MUST happen it’s the will of the people “
“Uh huh. We also voted for giving 0.7% international aid. And that was form a manifesto in a legally binding election and not an advisory referendum”
“Yes but, well...”
MolteniArcore
Well-known member
Just sums up what's wrong with this country really. All this whilst Minister's friends are lining their pockets on the back of the pandemic yet they don't care about that either...