Red Faction disgraceful today

[Juninhoburger]

RED FACTION ONLY WANT TO DO ILLEGAL STUFF - I don't think that is the truth tbh. Now and historically Red Faction have wanted to improve the fan experience and have been very successful in doing so and may I add against the wishes of the club. Uncomfortable conversations about ticket pricing, digital tickets seem to have been the cause of the recent breakaway by Red Faction from The Middlesbrough Supporters Forum.. why not stamp their feet a little, why not puff their chest pout a little 15 year of improving the fan experience and then to be ignored or dismissed.

I have said a number of behaviours from a sections of our fans tell a whole different story and it is something that the club should be listening to.. reactionaries on here calling for peoples heads will not change things for the better, not solve any problems and if anything it will make matters worse.

1. KIDS ENTERING THE FIELD OF PLAY - ban em burn em, lock up the parents etc etc etc
- in actual fact fans to want to be closer to the players, they want to feel part of the club that they support, meet and greets, social media interviews, fans Q&A even availability of kits and suitable merch. the membership card could be the step in the right direction but I feel it may fall short.. it does feel a bit like the bare minimum. RVDB & Bangura thing was canny.

2. RACIST INCIDENTS ONLINE AT AT GAMES - ban em for life lock em up, tell their employers etc etc etc
- our club is allowing a space for these hateful comments to grow and fester, our lack of visibility is empowering racist attitudes and behaviours, it's an uncomfortable conversation to be had.. but we are encouraging this with our lack of visibility. we have been poorly advised imo

3. FLARES & SMOKLE BOMBS - ban em, burn em for life lock em up, tell their employers etc etc etc
-our lack of displays and celebrations has inspired a group of supporters to step in come up with the goods and provide some much needed colour noise and excitement.
gone are the samba bands, the foam fingers and the confetti cannons.. big banners, cards and the occasional flare.. with a bit more support and guidance from the club we could get a great balance and give something fantastic back to the fans.

4. COCAINE IN THE COUNCOURSE - ban em, burn em bum em spit on their faces life lock em up, tell their mothers etc etc etc
- it's very much part of british night life/booze culture. exacerbated by horrific queues.. no one can pull more than one pint, the tills aren't clearly defined.. the stands aren't clearly defined.. gambling & booze in a family friendly setting.. i';m afraid they don't mix. we're letting our younger fans down and were not really providing for the older fans.. waiting 15 minutes for an overpriced pint which you cant drink in the stands. football culture is very much fuelling cocaine culture. another uncomfortable truth.

5. FIGHTING BETWEEN FANS - embarrassing fake stone island tvvats.. chuck em in the sea.
- we need more football friends lol.. Preston are canny.. we're allowed at least one football fiend aren't we?

Jesus christ shut up

 

[BoroMart]

RED FACTION ONLY WANT TO DO ILLEGAL STUFF - I don't think that is the truth tbh.

It’s also a misinterpretation of what I posted, but you carry on with this RF butt kissing.

I don’t even know where to begin with the rest of your word salad defending people right to run onto the pitch, take drugs in front of kids at footy because erm queues at the bar, argue for people’s right to fight and be racist and use dangerous pyrotechnics.

I mean is this really the hill you want to die on?

 

[BoroMart]

It looked good.. something a bit different.. ours was better than theirs.

How is it a bit different when every scrote across Europe from Cardiff to Constantinople are doing it?

 

[newyddion]

It’s also a misinterpretation of what I posted, but you carry on with this RF butt kissing.

I don’t even know where to begin with the rest of your word salad defending people right to run onto the pitch, take drugs in front of kids at footy because erm queues at the bar, argue for people’s right to fight and be racist and use dangerous pyrotechnics.

I mean is this really the hill you want to die on?

not butt kissing.. just looking at it from my own individual perspective rather than regurgitating a chosen narrative. you don't know where to start with my word salad? maybe words just aren't for you. I'm just highlighting contributing factors to so called anti social behaviours and once again reiterating that harsh punishments and an iron fist are not necessarily going to achieve the outcomes that the club or fans would like or expect. of course you can purposefully misconstrue what i've said.. but it will only make you look like a bell.
is that the hill you want to die on?

 

[newyddion]

How is it a bit different when every scrote across Europe from Cardiff to Constantinople are doing it?

we don't normally have displays or tifo

 

[BoroMart]

not butt kissing.. just looking at it from my own individual perspective rather than regurgitating a chosen narrative. you don't know where to start with my word salad? maybe words just aren't for you. I'm just highlighting contributing factors to so called anti social behaviours and once again reiterating that harsh punishments and an iron fist are not necessarily going to achieve the outcomes that the club or fans would like or expect. of course you can purposefully misconstrue what i've said.. but it will only make you look like a bell.
is that the hill you want to die on?

Sense is for nonsense isn’t.

The club aren’t responsible for anti-social behaviours and the club would be shift down if it allowed a safe space for law breaking like pitch invasion, drinking in seats, class A drug taking and pyrotechnics which are all illegal activity as dictated by the law not the club.

I’m not the only one that sees the only “bell” on this thread. Give that tongue a good scrub it’s looking pretty brown.

I like you usually, you’re mad as a box of frogs and funny with it, but you’ve gone down some conspiracy hole here, boxed yourself in, and are refusing to find a way back out .

This faux outrage about how badly the club is treating red faction is beyond embarrassing. But you carry on making a fool of yourself, who am I to stop you

 

[BoroMart]

we don't normally have displays or tifo

It’s not different it’s just copying what other idiots do, it’s not unique, it’s not particularly edgy, it’s just a bit sad

 

[m3t4tr0n]

is that the hill you want to die on?

I will absolutely die on the hill that if you put other people at risk by bringing in banned, dangerous and illegal items into the stadium you absolutely deserve a ban. Period. No if's and no but's.

As to any other issue there is, these are separate conversations to have, whether that's on here, through supporters forums (which RF have run away from) or any other appropriate forum. You do not start of any kind of discussion by flagrantly breaking rules/laws and endangering others and then crying "yeah but what about the racists and the cocaine" ... that does not bode well for your argument or your negotiating position.

 

[newyddion]

Sense is for nonsense isn’t.

The club aren’t responsible for anti-social behaviours and the club would be shift down if it allowed a safe space for law breaking like pitch invasion, drinking in seats, class A drug taking and pyrotechnics which are all illegal activity as dictated by the law not the club.

I would say the club has a responsibility to enhance the fan experience and attempt to cut down on anti social behaviour.

I’m not the only one that sees the only “bell” on this thread. Give that tongue a good scrub it’s looking pretty brown.

Just telling it as it is. No brown tongue on my part.. although you are talking a load of carp

I like you usually, you’re mad as a box of frogs and funny with it, but you’ve gone down some conspiracy hole here, boxed yourself in, and are refusing to find a way back out.

maybe just have a think or actually read what I've posted.. there's no conspiracy or black hole or even a need for a way out.

This faux outrage about how badly the club is treating red faction is beyond embarrassing. But you carry on making a fool of yourself, who am I to stop you

faux outrage? not faux outrage.. it's mainly the fans that are getting all hyped up over a flare.. this one flare not any of the others that are celebrated on the cover of books and in the media.. not the the flare from the stoke fans.. no it's just this one particular flare. lots of folks foaming at the mouth in yet another embarrassing pile on.

I wonder if the tone would be different is we had won 4-0 say? would the response have changed if it had happened against Sunderland? perhaps if the subject matter of the display was not revolving around the red faction itself.. peace in the middle east.. kick racism out of football.. something of that ilk?

That would be a sensible discussion to have, with debatable points.. unfortunaly it does not seem like you are cut out for that.

It’s not different it’s just copying what other idiots do, it’s not unique, it’s not particularly edgy, it’s just a bit sad

 

[newyddion]

I will absolutely die on the hill that if you put other people at risk by bringing in banned, dangerous and illegal items into the stadium you absolutely deserve a ban. Period. No if's and no but's.

As to any other issue there is, these are separate conversations to have, whether that's on here, through supporters forums (which RF have run away from) or any other appropriate forum. You do not start of any kind of discussion by flagrantly breaking rules/laws and endangering others and then crying "yeah but what about the racists and the cocaine" ... that does not bode well for your argument or your negotiating position.

you will die on the hill of looking like a bell?

i must remind you that I am not part of red faction, I do not represent them or their actions so as far as any conversation I may have it is not inhibited in anyway by me breaking a rule or law or endangering anyone. I'm not crying about the racists.. but your response is typically awkward and unhelpful..

that does not bode well for anything else you say.. the rest will just be clouded by an unnecessarily bigoted position.

as for negotiations.. well there are non. I do not represent any particular group only fans in general.. I have nothing to offer apart from sensible well thought out suggestions and the club can offer me nothing in return.. apart from perhaps taking some of these points on board in order to improve the overall fan experience.

it's just a message board.. so these are just for the benefit of a select few. most of which seem more concerned with climbing up the pole and banging and screaming as much as they can!! it's a bit like a monkey enclosure in the zoo when the zoo keeper comes in with a bag of bananas.. some may try on a pair our tourists shades, some may pick up a single banana and eat it comfortably in a quiet corner.. most are bearing teeth and throwing faeces all over the place.

settle down boys.. and please wash your hands x

 

[m3t4tr0n]

you will die on the hill of looking like a bell?

If believing that nobody has the right to endanger others in such a reckless manner without punishment makes me a bell, then yes absolutely 100%, happy to look like a bell, at least in your eyes .

 

[newyddion]

If believing that nobody has the right to endanger others in such a reckless manner without punishment makes me a bell, then yes absolutely 100%, happy to look like a bell, at least in your eyes .

is it not somewhat of a redundant point? seen as flares are not allowed in the ground..

all this hot air and excessive outrage is completely over the top.

 

[BoroMart]

I would say the club has a responsibility to enhance the fan experience and attempt to cut down on anti social behaviour.

The law around pyrotechnics, drugs, running onto the pitch and racism all exist to combat anti-social measures. You are right the club has a responsibility to cut anti-social behaviour and banning people who do is the club being responsible. I believe you've just checkmated yourself here.

 

[newyddion]

The law around pyrotechnics, drugs, running onto the pitch and racism all exist to combat anti-social measures. You are right the club has a responsibility to cut anti-social behaviour and banning people who do is the club being responsible. I believe you've just checkmated yourself here.

Unfortunately not BoroMart. Nice try tho lol

 

[BoroMart]

Unfortunately not BoroMart. Nice try tho lol

So square the circle then. Are you saying the club should or shouldn't enact its responsibility to crack down on anti-social behaviour? Because I think I speak for many on here, we're confused by your message, one minute the club and us fans are wrong for wanting punishment, then the next you are having a go at the club for not cracking down on anti-social behaviour, both statements can't be true.....

 

[newyddion]

So square the circle then. Are you saying the club should or shouldn't enact its responsibility to crack down on anti-social behaviour? Because I think I speak for many on here, we're confused by your message, one minute the club and us fans are wrong for wanting punishment, then the next you are having a go at the club for not cracking down on anti-social behaviour, both statements can't be true.....

there is an unnecessary and over the top reaction to the the flare on Saturday by folks on here

the club should look to work with red faction

cracking down on anti social behaviour does not always mean lifetime bans and further restriction for all fans.

we can benefit from an improved fan experience that would reduce harm and reduce anti social behaviour.

you could just read my posts.

 

[BoroMart]

there is an unnecessary and over the top reaction to the the flare on Saturday by folks on here

That's your opinion, some would be of the opinion your defence of certain members of RF is equally unnecessary and over the top. I don't see anyone asking for RF to be banned, just for the individual to take his medicine for breaking the law and the rules. You've just advocated the club should be banning anti-social behaviour, so....

the club should look to work with red faction

They did, but that's a two way relationship, RF threw their toys out the pram, and broke rules and laws that they knew were in place and could get the club a fine. Where in last weekends example are RF holding up their end of the agreement to work with the club? I'll answer for you, they didn't

cracking down on anti social behaviour does not always mean lifetime bans and further restriction for all fans.

The club have already stated it's a 3 year ban for bringing pyros in. The police have stated it's a criminal offence. The club have not put any further restrictions on fans that were not already there. Clearly if RF are not going to abide by the restrictions already in lace then further policing will be required to enforce the rules, but that's on RF or certain members of it, for breaking the rules in the first place

we can benefit from an improved fan experience that would reduce harm and reduce anti social behaviour.

That would require RF adulting up a bit, and taking their medicine for their failures. They haven't come out of this well. By breaking laws they've left themselves open to criticism, that's fair criticism because they did break the law

you could just read my posts.

I did, we all did, and we're all confused if the club should or shouldn't crack down on illegal (and therefore by definition anti-social) behaviour in the stadium.

 

[newyddion]

That's your opinion, some would be of the opinion your defence of certain members of RF is equally unnecessary and over the top. I don't see anyone asking for RF to be banned, just for the individual to take his medicine for breaking the law and the rules. You've just advocated the club should be banning anti-social behaviour, so....

The lad has been caught by the way..

They did, but that's a two way relationship, RF threw their toys out the pram, and broke rules and laws that they knew were in place and could get the club a fine. Where in last weekends example are RF holding up their end of the agreement to work with the club? I'll answer for you, they didn't

The lad has been caught by the way..

The club have already stated it's a 3 year ban for bringing pyros in. The police have stated it's a criminal offence. The club have not put any further restrictions on fans that were not already there. Clearly if RF are not going to abide by the restrictions already in lace then further policing will be required to enforce the rules, but that's on RF or certain members of it, for breaking the rules in the first place

The lad has been caught by the way..

That would require RF adulting up a bit, and taking their medicine for their failures. They haven't come out of this well. By breaking laws they've left themselves open to criticism, that's fair criticism because they did break the law

No adult uses the term adulting. The lad has been caught by the way..

I did, we all did, and we're all confused if the club should or shouldn't crack down on illegal (and therefore by definition anti-social) behaviour in the stadium.

Its a redundant point. folks on here have over reacted.. as is the way on message borads and social media.

The lad has been caught by the way x

 

[m3t4tr0n]

The lad has been caught by the way x

Wonderful x

 

[newyddion]

Wonderful x

maybe FMTTM could make a display for the next home game.. day before bonfire night.. it would be a shame not to