Pubs to close?

BoroMart

Well-known member
#22
I think the correct tactic is to get proper contact tracing in place. Not to close more things again. The report from the guardian complaining about the amateurish way training was dealt with was to me as a civil servant depressingly familiar. Where's this app?
Well certainly a working app will help keep things under control, and certainly give the information to contain second waves as pond ripples instead of tsunamis. It will allow local lockdowns, rather than wide scale.

The whole app, and track and trace service is an absolute scandal, heads should roll for it, but they won't.
 
#23
WHO have recently stated no second wave. Just one wide wave.
Plenty of doctors and medical professionals have stuck their necks out and said the same. The head of the Sepsis Trust in this country being one of them.
 
#25
Here in Spain we've had the biggest daily number of infections (just over 1000 yesterday) since late April, through primarily in the "spike" areas of Aragon and Madrid . What is interesting is that the average age of those infected has dropped from 66 to 40 - younger people not following mask and social distancing rules.

The response has been to go back and restrict bar, restaurant, and nightclub capacities and opening hours - the rationale and rules have been communicated clearly, are unambiguous, and being enforced.

This will need to happen in the UK
problem you’ve got is people are thick.
Brian needs it explaining to him
Then Dave needs it explaining to him
Then sue needs it explaining to her.
It really hasn’t been that difficult if you have an ounce of common sense and act sensibly.
 
#27
problem you’ve got is people are thick.
Brian needs it explaining to him
Then Dave needs it explaining to him
Then sue needs it explaining to her.
It really hasn’t been that difficult if you have an ounce of common sense and act sensibly.
I’m not sure it’s “thick” per se - it’s the arrogance of thinking it won’t happen to them, or care if it does.... the “I know best and I’ll do what I want” attitude
 
#29
I think the correct tactic is to get proper contact tracing in place. Not to close more things again. The report from the guardian complaining about the amateurish way training was dealt with was to me as a civil servant depressingly familiar. Where's this app?
I would agree that a comprehensive test, trace and isolate system would be a preferable response, rather than closing down parts of the economy again. But I don't think the main issue is the lack on an app (which is really just an add-on). The real problem remains the inability to successfully test enough people who are contracting the virus.

The latest NHS Test and Trace figures show that of 3,953 positive tests in the week ending 19th July, 3,887 (98.3%) had their details passed to the Test and Trace service, of which 3,098 (79.7%) were successfully contacted. Out of that number, 2,435 people (79.9%) provided details of those they had been in contact with, of which 77.9% were reached by the contact tracers and asked to self-isolate (incidentally, this in itself is hardly a stunning success, as apparently 69.0% of close contacts reported to the service were living in the same household as the person who had tested positive!).

So, the NHS Test and Trace service is reaching the contacts of 77.9% of 79.9% of 79.7% of 98.3% of the people who test postive every week. This equates to 48.8%, or less than half.

However, the real problem is that the ONS infection survey for the same week estimates that 19,600 became newly infected with the virus. This compares with the 3.953 positive tests for that week, so we are only finding 20.2% of the cases in the first place.

When you factor that into the above numbers, this means that NHS Test and Trace is only successfully reaching 9.8% of the contacts of people who contract the virus each week. For a £10bn "world beating" system, that is nothing short of a disgrace.

Unfortunately, until and unless these problems are fixed, I think we're going to see more tightening of restrictions as the main policy response to rising numbers of new cases.
 
#30
Billy I always like you and Bears measured, fact based responses.. However, whilst I agree with everything you said, and I am about 5 beers in, an automated track and trace, with a nationally, publicly available portal showing hotspots would be invaluable, both for local authorities and the wider, general public. World beating my bum.
 
#32
That’s not a bad shout, I have two young kids and have no intention of going to a pub anytime soon so why not.
Is that a serious question? Let's assume so - Because it marginalizes a sector of society, not an area where we are all in it together, but some folks, and I am completely ignoring how this would be policed
 
#33
Is that a serious question? Let's assume so - Because it marginalizes a sector of society, not an area where we are all in it together, but some folks, and I am completely ignoring how this would be policed
What’s the problem, it’s about mitigating risk, if like me you choose to have kids you are well aware sacrifices will be needed to be made throughout their lives especially as they are growing. If I have to sacrifice the ability to go to a pub for a year so my children can have an education it’s an absolute no Brainer.

Why should people without kids or with adult kids be penalised for the sake of mine and others children.

Though yes, policing it or trying to would be a nightmare.
 
#34
Priv, because it marginalizes a section of society, but I already said that. Why don't we just keep black folks at home or older people, or anyone with an underlying condition?

Why don't you show some solidarity under difficult circumstances? I could go on about what the problem with that solution suggests. I am hoping you see why it is not a good idea.
 
#35
Billy I always like you and Bears measured, fact based responses.. However, whilst I agree with everything you said, and I am about 5 beers in, an automated track and trace, with a nationally, publicly available portal showing hotspots would be invaluable, both for local authorities and the wider, general public. World beating my bum.
Sorry, I probably should have made myself clearer. I’m not saying that an app with an automated track and trace system is a bad idea (although even that is bound to have technological limitations, meaning you need a physical system running alongside).

The big problem, however, with either of these approaches is that you have to find the people with Covid first, in order to isolate both them and their contacts. At the moment, we’re only finding about 1 in every 5 people with the virus, meaning that even if we traced every single one of their contacts, we’d only be finding 20% of the people we need to.

Until we sort out that problem, it won’t matter what type of tracking system we employ.
 

BoroMart

Well-known member
#39
But I don't think the main issue is the lack on an app (which is really just an add-on)
The app is far more than an 'add on', it automates and adds efficiency to the service. The whole process is way too slow to be effective at the moment. It reduces the reliance on pubs and restaurants having accurate information on clients, it reduces false positive for contact. It's vital
 
#40
Whitehall leak this morning that schools are going to open part time in September; Williamson’s response is utter gold- make the class sizes smaller! Does he live in the real world; where will schools find the staff and money for that in 4 weeks?
 
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