Private Eye and Teesside freeport

Redwurzel

Well-known member
If you call posters liars you are going to upset and anger them, just if people called you a liar.

Some posters have different opinions and I respect that, especially when thety have presented their reasons for differences, but I don't respect posters who appear to enjoy causing offence.
 

r00fie1

Well-known member
Mart, I didn’t vote for Brexit so can’t defend something that I didn’t influence. But it has happened

The economic argument is both political parties, whilst in power have followed similar economic paths and the question is how do you regenerate an area like the North East or the former welsh mining towns and Northern industrial towns? Or pretty much everywhere bar the South East and major cities like Manchester

The vote happened, grants obviously didn’t cut it here. I guess people feel left out or just weren’t feeling the benefits of the system and economic path we were pursuing
And European Union Grants, funding and research is also coming to an end.......so that is another revenue stream lost to deprived ex-industrial areas like Teesside:mad:
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
If you call posters liars you are going to upset and anger them, just if people called you a liar.

Some posters have different opinions and I respect that, especially when thety have presented their reasons for differences, but I don't respect posters who appear to enjoy causing offence.
But you repeated a lie about “sovereignty” and the power of Brussels. That makes you a liar.
 

exiledinboro

Well-known member

Manufacturing declined faster under Blair than any other leader since the industrial revolution according to Full facts.

You’re talking £40 billion lost just under Blair. And I’m only using him as apparently these were the good days rather than the Tories

And my point is that when you compare what was lost in terms of jobs and industry and you’re arguing £28 million or £78 million pound grants per year is the big loss for the region then I disagree

I think grants are a sticking plaster for what has been lost
 
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Zoophonic

Well-known member

Manufacturing declined faster under Blair than any other leader since the industrial revolution according to Full facts.

You’re talking £40 billion lost just under Blair. And I’m only using him as apparently these were the good days rather than the Tories

And my point is that when you compare what was lost in terms of jobs and industry and you’re arguing £28 million or £78 million pound grants per year is the big loss for the region then I disagree

I think grants are a sticking plaster for what has been lost
And yet manufacturing output peaked to its highest point to date when Brown took over in 2007 and started a v shaped recovery. EU opponents blamed Europe and the EU for the decline but data shows membership of the EEC/EU hadn’t done damage to the UK’s manufacturing output. In fact, it was at one of its highest levels historically in 2016 – just as the country was voting to leave the EU.
 

MolteniArcore

Well-known member
If one has an opinion that is a based on a falsehood then surely it's ok to call that out.

This 'opinion' argument has cost this country dear over the last few years with commentators on the TV / radio spouting all sorts of rubbish about the EU, Brexit, Covid, Climate Change etc all under the banner of 'opinion' when it is basically bollox.

If we are going to have decent debate then let's base our opinions on evidence, not proven falsehoods.
 

exiledinboro

Well-known member
And yet manufacturing output peaked to its highest point to date when Brown took over in 2007 and started a v shaped recovery. EU opponents blamed Europe and the EU for the decline but data shows membership of the EEC/EU hadn’t done damage to the UK’s manufacturing output. In fact, it was at one of its highest levels historically in 2016 – just as the country was voting to leave the EU.

Manufacturing is now a fraction of our economy because we are a service economy. When Blair took over it accounted for 20% of our economy in GDP and when he left 10%

To be honest if you’re trying to tell me otherwise I can’t be bothered continuing.

Like I said this has been done a million times.
 

Zoophonic

Well-known member
Manufacturing is now a fraction of our economy because we are a service economy. When Blair took over it accounted for 20% of our economy in GDP and when he left 10%

To be honest if you’re trying to tell me otherwise I can’t be bothered continuing.

Like I said this has been done a million times.
A rather strange response. First of all I didn’t say you were incorrect. Secondly I gave a counter point to which you have conveniently chosen to ignore. And if you don’t want to bother continuing I am sure many reading this thread would be very relieved frankly.
 

Cardiffdaffs

Well-known member
Manufacturing output in the last 15 years or so has been at its highest but with the ability to trade easily with our biggest and nearest trading partner gone and the fact that a free trade deal with the US is “years away” at least then who are we going to sell to apart from ourselves?. It’s a cluster fcuk of a situation now and output is only going to go one way.
 

Unravel_Morrison

Well-known member
Manufacturing is now a fraction of our economy because we are a service economy. When Blair took over it accounted for 20% of our economy in GDP and when he left 10%

To be honest if you’re trying to tell me otherwise I can’t be bothered continuing.

Like I said this has been done a million times.
That makes it sound like we're an outlier in terms of manufacturing as a percentage of our economy.

Other than Germany, we're very similar in terms of the manufacturing to services ratio. We are at 10%, France is at 11% and USA 12%.

Italy is higher at 17% but I'm not sure I'd swap their economy for ours.
 

exiledinboro

Well-known member
That makes it sound like we're an outlier in terms of manufacturing as a percentage of our economy.

Other than Germany, we're very similar in terms of the manufacturing to services ratio. We are at 10%, France is at 11% and USA 12%.

Italy is higher at 17% but I'm not sure I'd swap their economy for ours.
I think some have focused in on one of the points I made about production. When the larger point I was trying to discuss is that successive governments have followed a Neoliberal globalist agenda. Which is fine but there are always going to be winners and losers. I also think America and other western nations have similar problems so this isn’t just a UK problem. Maybe not Germany’s because they have a thriving export economy

Reading some of the last few comments you’d think production in the UK was the big success story of the last 40 years.
 

Corcaigh_the_Cat

Well-known member
I think some have focused in on one of the points I made about production. When the larger point I was trying to discuss is that successive governments have followed a Neoliberal globalist agenda. Which is fine but there are always going to be winners and losers. I also think America and other western nations have similar problems so this isn’t just a UK problem. Maybe not Germany’s because they have a thriving export economy

Reading some of the last few comments you’d think production in the UK was the big success story of the last 40 years.
Of course it's not a UK problem, the West as a whole opted for cheap manufacturing imports at the expense of their domestic industries, it was all based on cost alone yet we're now seeing the real cost to society.

The phrase coined at the outset was that Thatcher and Co knew the cost of everything and the value of nothing, it hit the nail on the head.

Our dog eat dog approach in the UK hasn't been shared elsewhere in the West, it's why you see countries developing as ours treads water or slides backwards. We're still one of the wealthiest countries in the world but large swathes of it are looking more like underdeveloped countries. It's a similar story in USA.
 

Unravel_Morrison

Well-known member
Of course it's not a UK problem, the West as a whole opted for cheap manufacturing imports at the expense of their domestic industries, it was all based on cost alone yet we're now seeing the real cost to society.

The phrase coined at the outset was that Thatcher and Co knew the cost of everything and the value of nothing, it hit the nail on the head.

Our dog eat dog approach in the UK hasn't been shared elsewhere in the West, it's why you see countries developing as ours treads water or slides backwards. We're still one of the wealthiest countries in the world but large swathes of it are looking more like underdeveloped countries. It's a similar story in USA.
I always describe us as half-arsed.

Whatever we do, we sort of muddle through and know the cost of everything but the value of nothing.

Think about any major project that is/was planned and the cost always escalates over time as reality bites and overrides the 'do as little as possible to make it work' plan.

The main problem under the Tories especially has been low productivity and this government have no plans to solve this problem; they expect that business will 'invest' to take care of this, without giving them any reason to do so.
 

exiledinboro

Well-known member
I always describe us as half-arsed.

Whatever we do, we sort of muddle through and know the cost of everything but the value of nothing.

Think about any major project that is/was planned and the cost always escalates over time as reality bites and overrides the 'do as little as possible to make it work' plan.

The main problem under the Tories especially has been low productivity and this government have no plans to solve this problem; they expect that business will 'invest' to take care of this, without giving them any reason to do so.

I agree the Tories have been a disaster for the North but they're popular and have an incredibly loyal voter base in the south for a reason. Which is why I don't understand why some underestimate them 🤷🏻‍♂️

I did comment on the budget thread how Truss is following Thatcher style politics which is 80's Regan imported ideas that says low taxes and a small state creates growth. Anyway I deleted it because nobody was discussing anything but brexit being to blame 🤷🏻‍♂️ the point is that I think that if I look back over the last 40 years Thatcher politics will be an economic disaster to bring back but Blair policies would be a disaster too. Not nearly as bad but we need new ideas

And Smalltown RedWursel mentioned there is was an issue with decusions being made in London AND Brussels that impacted the North East which is a fact. He didn't mention sovereignty - only you did and when he said "what" you called him a liar.
I don't get where a Tory voter like you fits into all this other than to try and cause arguments presumably 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

r00fie1

Well-known member
Would devolvement of power to the regions be beneficial and make positive change to the region?
Like the French have "Departments"?
Give tax-raising powers to those Regional departments(y)
The North East, like the North West and the North know their areas, demographics and needs much better than any suit in Whitehall.
Peoples republic(s) to the fore I say! ✊
 

Piccadilly Day Tripper

Well-known member
Houchen getting pelters on twitter
He'll be hitting the 'block' button a lot today.

Look at JRM in Commons today, pushing through lifting the ban on fracking despite hostile opposition on both sides of the Commons, and with the practice basically proven to be a dead end as an option for the UK (compared to the US, which has the vast land expanses to make it work). You just have to ask 'what's in it for him?' and work out who he has connections with and what back alley deals have been made, and for how much. Because there is a generation of Tory MPs who have realised if you stick your chin out and just ignore any feelings or doubt or shame, you'll eventually get your payout. A means to an end.

I fear it will turn out to be the same with Houchen and other loudmouths in the Redcar and Cleveland area.
 
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