Private Eye and Teesside freeport

BoroMart

Well-known member
Its about the best overall solution, the Tees Valley struggled in the 40 years and it appears membership of the EU has not helped the area. I would add UK Governments have not helped much neither.
Membership wasn't the cause of our problems in the north east or the wider UK either.
 

exiledinboro

Well-known member
The only problem with that argument is that EU funding was available to this region, as an area in difficulty, but the governments of the last decade or more, all of the same sort, decided against applying for it, that's the same party in government that blocked EU moves to protect the steel industry.

Of course they're going to outsource, that's what the Tories do, cut wages, maximise profit, we have a national history of it.

I can’t be bothered going over the same arguments like I said

But you’ve admitted under Labour as well as the Tories they’ve followed the similar economic paths that have benefited people in professional jobs and people in cities and metropolitan areas or affluent areas

And in that economic system there’s been no solidarity whatsoever to these areas either from the political parties or the people who see themselves as voters and have often ignored the North East, Wales, Scotland coastal towns, the midlands North West etc because they’ve been protected from the change whilst these areas decline

So areas that have had high manufacturing previously now have nothing and are whilst those who have benefited and have been protected are moaning that whilst we produce practically nothing and billions have been lost in working communities we should settle for a few million whilst exporting pretty much all manufacturing
And no offence but you probably don’t even live here

And how many times does it need repeating some people can only understand Brexit in an economic context and just haven’t understood what happened
 
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Corcaigh_the_Cat

Well-known member
I can’t be bothered going over the same arguments like I said

But you’ve admitted under Labour as well as the Tories they’ve followed the similar economic paths that have benefited people in professional jobs and people in cities and metropolitan areas

And in that system there’s been no solidarity whatsoever to these areas either from the political parties or the people who see themselves as voters and have often ignored the North East, Wales, Scotland coastal towns, the midlands North West etc

So areas that had high manufacturing now have nothing and are whilst those who have benefited and have been protected are moaning that whilst produce practically nothing and billions have been lost we should settle for a few million

To be honest the EU has billions in some countries and built roads and shifted jobs which is what is missing here

And no offence but you probably don’t even live here

And how many times does it need repeating some people can only understand Brexit an economic point and just haven’t understood what happened.
Don't live here, where do you think I live?

And by the way, it's the Tories of the last decade and more that have done the most damage to most in both, and not just in this country.

Of course the EU has moved money about to develop nations, that's what it was introduced and developed to do and is still doing.

I'm not the biggest fan of the way the EU is organised, it's not democratic enough for me, but it's doing a better job when it comes to the development of infrastructure across Europe than we have managed in the last half century, mainly due to the idiocy and arrogance of our leadership.

No offence to you either, and it's charming to know that you've decided to 'follow me', I didn't know that was something you could do, but you're more than welcome.
 

exiledinboro

Well-known member
Don't live here, where do you think I live?

And by the way, it's the Tories of the last decade and more that have done the most damage to most in both, and not just in this country.

Of course the EU has moved money about to develop nations, that's what it was introduced and developed to do and is still doing.

I'm not the biggest fan of the way the EU is organised, it's not democratic enough for me, but it's doing a better job when it comes to the development of infrastructure across Europe than we have managed in the last half century, mainly due to the idiocy and arrogance of our leadership.

No offence to you either, and it's charming to know that you've decided to 'follow me', I didn't know that was something you could do, but you're more than welcome.
I’m not interested in you personally and respect your privacy

I was making the point that manufacturing has been lost and it was worth billions and you seem to think grants is what the area needs. As a trade off it’s rather insulting

And I was also joking that you probably don’t live here so it won’t affect you and so don’t like change. But like I said I don’t want to discuss what happens 6 years ago and I don’t have an opinion on Freeport’s for the area or if it will be good or bad. Time will tell but what is the alternative plan for this area from other parties or the other areas around the UK
 
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BoroMart

Well-known member
And how many times does it need repeating some people can only understand Brexit in an economic context and just haven’t understood what happened
you can't ignore the economic context, it's massively impactful. I'm happy to discuss what other benefits outside of economics have occurred, but I want specific positive outcomes, not nonsense about straight bananas, or 'sovereignty' as we have 2/3rd of our policy and law making dictated to us by unelected people, and then government policy is largely driven by unelected SPAGs and party donors. That isn't sovereignty it's corruption.
 

Zoophonic

Well-known member
you can't ignore the economic context, it's massively impactful. I'm happy to discuss what other benefits outside of economics have occurred, but I want specific positive outcomes, not nonsense about straight bananas, or 'sovereignty' as we have 2/3rd of our policy and law making dictated to us by unelected people, and then government policy is largely driven by unelected SPAGs and party donors. That isn't sovereignty it's corruption.
Not sure what "spags" are but add non dom "newspaper" owners to that list.
 

exiledinboro

Well-known member
you can't ignore the economic context, it's massively impactful. I'm happy to discuss what other benefits outside of economics have occurred, but I want specific positive outcomes, not nonsense about straight bananas, or 'sovereignty' as we have 2/3rd of our policy and law making dictated to us by unelected people, and then government policy is largely driven by unelected SPAGs and party donors. That isn't sovereignty it's corruption.
Mart, I didn’t vote for Brexit so can’t defend something that I didn’t influence. But it has happened

The economic argument is both political parties, whilst in power have followed similar economic paths and the question is how do you regenerate an area like the North East or the former welsh mining towns and Northern industrial towns? Or pretty much everywhere bar the South East and major cities like Manchester

The vote happened, grants obviously didn’t cut it here. I guess people feel left out or just weren’t feeling the benefits of the system and economic path we were pursuing
 

Corcaigh_the_Cat

Well-known member
Mart, I didn’t vote for Brexit so can’t defend something that I didn’t influence. But it has happened

The economic argument is both political parties, whilst in power have followed similar economic paths and the question is how do you regenerate an area like the North East or the former welsh mining towns and Northern industrial towns? Or pretty much everywhere bar the South East and major cities like Manchester

The vote happened, grants obviously didn’t cut it here. I guess people feel left out or just weren’t feeling the benefits of the system and economic path we were pursuing
You're spot on with regards to both political parties of the last four decades, unfortunately it's what the majority in the country wanted, probably still do, and they aren't particularly interested in what is or isn't developed in other parts of the country, and that's a real pity.

We've lost much of our industry as you rightly say as we've transitioned to more if a service economy, a decision taken many years ago.

What could be done to alleviate the area will take a lot of investment. Our transport infrastructure is way behind the times, improving that would be labour intensive. The labour force is available, I heard a report last week in R4 and it was mentioned that there are still 5m people of working age in receipt of benefits, that's a lot of people either without jobs or in incomes which we need to top up. That's a big chunk of the country who aren't spending in shops, putting business under further pressure to make cuts.

The money awash in London needs to be spread more evenly, get investment rolling across the areas that need it rather than an extra coat of gloss for the areas already well supported.

That's where European development funding in areas such as ours together with a national development plan would have been useful

Corbyn may have been the leader we required, there isn't one now. We're run nationally and locally by spivs looking for a quick buck for themselves and their colleagues. No development at all
 

Redwurzel

Well-known member
Membership wasn't the cause of our problems in the north east or the wider UK either.
The thread has been moved away from the Private Eye article (potential fraud, nepotism, commercial exploitation etc). BM has stated one thing for me which is at the heart of the BREXIT debate. Of course it is one posters opinion and I am sure others would join in with, while others opinion's feel the way the UK has been governed from London and Brussels has negatively impacted the North East. The EU referendum in 2016 was a referendum about the governance from Brussels (for me).

If I was Scottish I probably would have voted to leave the UK. My opinions of governments from London is the same as governments from Brussels.
 
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BoroMart

Well-known member
The economic argument is both political parties, whilst in power have followed similar economic paths and the question is how do you regenerate an area like the North East or the former welsh mining towns and Northern industrial towns? Or pretty much everywhere bar the South East and major cities like Manchester
I don't believe they were the same. Labours was pragmatic middle ground economics, tories was neo-liberal low tax, trickle down economic (lie).

The biggest indicator of the different approaches can be seen in the outcomes, under Labour we managed to have the greatest run of economic growth on record, under the tories, it's persistent under performance economically, with regular bouts of negative growth. So either the Tories are really unlucky, or really bad at enacting the same policies, or their policies are different but some people are hoodwinked into thinking they were the same because if the tories can't have victories in power, the next best thing they can do is sow the lie that labours victories were losses.
 
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Redwurzel

Well-known member
I can’t be bothered going over the same arguments like I said

But you’ve admitted under Labour as well as the Tories they’ve followed the similar economic paths that have benefited people in professional jobs and people in cities and metropolitan areas or affluent areas

And in that economic system there’s been no solidarity whatsoever to these areas either from the political parties or the people who see themselves as voters and have often ignored the North East, Wales, Scotland coastal towns, the midlands North West etc because they’ve been protected from the change whilst these areas decline

So areas that have had high manufacturing previously now have nothing and are whilst those who have benefited and have been protected are moaning that whilst we produce practically nothing and billions have been lost in working communities we should settle for a few million whilst exporting pretty much all manufacturing
And no offence but you probably don’t even live here

And how many times does it need repeating some people can only understand Brexit in an economic context and just haven’t understood what happened
A lot of points in this post that I agree with. The managed change from manufacturing to services hasn't been managed at all or not very well. Resources appear to me to go more to centralised/metropolitan areas and then many young people with degrees follow them. The EU and the EEC before it had strong mechanism for supporting farming, but less so for declining urban areas/industries. £200m across the Tees Valley was something, but over 20 years thats £10m a year for a population of around 600,000 or about £16 per person per year.
 

Redwurzel

Well-known member
I don't believe they were the same. Labours was pragmatic middle ground economics, tories was neo-liberal low tax, trickle down economic (lie).

The biggest indicator of the different approaches can be seen in the outcomes, under Labour we managed to have the greatest run of economic growth on record, under the tories, it's persistent under performance economically, with regular bouts of negative growth. So either the Tories are really unlucky, or really bad at enacting the same policies, or their policies are different but some people are hoodwinked into thinking they were the same because if the tories can't have victories in power, the next best thing they can do is sow the lie that labours victories were losses.
The UK is very much affected by global markets, world economies generally did well in the New Labour years, however the UK tanked in 2009 under New Labour, a lot was due to the World Banking Crisis, where financial institutions made enormous gambles and many lost. They then needed to be bailed out with public funds and the banking sector in the UK dominates our economy. Funds that should have gone on public services/welfare for the next 12 years etc. The financial gambles were encouraged by New Labour as much as the Tories as was the UK's greater dependence on financial services.

To me, New Labour were a diluted form of the Conservatives. Services that should have been brought back under public ownership were not, like water and rail. The new hospitals were funded with PFI contracts that take excessive financial resources today from frontline healthcare in large annual rent payments to finance companies. Income and wealth inequality increased in the UK under Labour too, just at a slower rate. The decline of the regions was still occuring. There was no transition of immigration from the new EU States (unlike almost the rest of Western European) hence there was a sudden supply several million new workers which lowered pay in the sectors affected. (front line jobs in farming, care, healthcare, hospitality, construction etc), but added to increased costs such as accommodation.

A new model of working as a country is required, for me.
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
The thread has been moved away from the Private Eye article (potential fraud, nepotism, commercial exploitation etc). BM has stated one thing for me which is at the heart of the BREXIT debate. Of course it is one posters opinion and I am sure others would join in with, while others opinion's feel the way the UK has been governed from London and Brussels has negatively impacted the North East. The EU referendum in 2016 was a referendum about the governance from Brussels (for me).

If I was Scottish I probably would have voted to leave the UK. My opinions of governments from London is the same as governments from Brussels.
We’ve proven the “sovereignty” argument to be a lie. The whole of Corona and different nations responses also proved eu nations have sovereignty. Yet some still repeat the lie. I guess Brexit lies are so ingrained it’s all you know how to do
 
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