And this is the real issue. Its not trying to convince the top few % to spend 30k plus on an EV its how do we make an EV for the average person the millions and millions out there who wont or cant spend much more than 5k on a vehicle.
"Nobody in their right mind would buy a used EV..."
- Thread starter SmallTown
- Start date
The more people that buy new ones now translate directly into cheaper 2nd, 3rd or even 4th hand cars 10 years down the line. Like I said it's totally correct they are not there for everyone, yet.
JustTheGent
Well-known member
Why buy? If you do some research and have a bit of knowledge - you'll save an awful lot of money. The average monthly car finance payment today is around £400-£450, that's approx £50,000 over a decade. If you buy the right used car and keep it for a decade, you'll save an insane amount of money. Just imagine you haven't got those car payments and are putting the equivalent money into an index fund that accumulates over 10-20-30 years. You're potentially talking about a very nice house, cottage, villa abroad, etc.
It's the whole mentality that's wrong. People go to work (often miserable) and sign up to liabilities that are in line with their salary. People get their wages and feel like they have to sign up to these liabilities to compensate for going to work. A subscription service and locking you in is what any corporation wants their customers on. Hence why motor dealerships don't like people buying cars, they want vehicles going on PCP, HP or leasehold contracts.
With regards to used EV sales increasing, they had to as people haven't been buying them. This means the price drops and sales increase. But crucially the sale of new EVs are in decline - this means the used market will suffer long term. One is connected to the other. Obviously it will be interesting to see where prices go with new EVs, can the manufacturers make the business model work? We've already seen Apple get out of the game plus several other companies going bankrupt.
It's the whole mentality that's wrong. People go to work (often miserable) and sign up to liabilities that are in line with their salary. People get their wages and feel like they have to sign up to these liabilities to compensate for going to work. A subscription service and locking you in is what any corporation wants their customers on. Hence why motor dealerships don't like people buying cars, they want vehicles going on PCP, HP or leasehold contracts.
With regards to used EV sales increasing, they had to as people haven't been buying them. This means the price drops and sales increase. But crucially the sale of new EVs are in decline - this means the used market will suffer long term. One is connected to the other. Obviously it will be interesting to see where prices go with new EVs, can the manufacturers make the business model work? We've already seen Apple get out of the game plus several other companies going bankrupt.
This is fantasy to many. did you not read my post.
The average age of a car on the road today is 9 years old.
So the vast majority of drivers drive a vehicle that is worth less than 5k .
I doubt very many of these drivers have finance on a 9 year old car they most likely own it outright.
This is the average age so many will be driving cars that are much older and worth considerably less.
People dont usually drive an old banger by choice its because its all they can afford.
I think 10 years is considerably optimistic.
Buying the "right" used car is a minefield, especially for those (most people) who are not mechanically minded without also then factoring in increased maintenance costs with aging vehicles. Like everything in life there are pros and cons. I'd be the first to admit that, again as with many things, there isn't a perfect solution.
I'm actually fortunate in that I mostly work from home, I don't HAVE to lock myself into any contact. I choose to because for me it's hassle free rental of a service and it suits me. However that's just me, all I'm saying is theres a lot of different use cases and priorities out there.
As for EVs dropping off, I think that's far from certain at this time. There are a lot of new startups trying to compete with the old guard, some have come and are still here, some have come and gone, others have barely arrived yet. It's way too early to assess how this plays out IMO.
You think it's optimistic that cars bought today will ultimately be on the 2nd/3rd hand markets in 10 years ?
SmallTown
Well-known member
This EV thread was LITERALLY to highlight how used prices have given down? It's literally celebrating the thing you think doesn't exist
Depends how the sales go, but I'd generally agree, the only point I'm making is there are already more cheaper cars (not that long ago it was only new available) and that number should keep increasing... As long as new cars keep entering the market of course. The length of time it takes for that, well who knows, I'd agree 10 years there does indeed feel optimistic
JustTheGent
Well-known member
9 & 10 year old vehicles aren't old bangers, you'll often see affluent areas and higher priced houses with an older vehicle/s on the drive. Much older than 9-10 years. A house down the road from me must be worth well over a million quid, it has 2009 Saab on the drive.
SilentProf
Well-known member
You can get a brand new EV for under £15k now so prices are closing in on parity with ICE cars. It just takes time for the new cars of today to hit the second hand market.
HolgateCorner
Well-known member
Electric company cars have massive tax breaks on them at the moment to try to encourage them, and it’s working at our workplace where most people are switching to either all electric or long electric range hybrid.
These breaks will fade away in time and car manufacturers will have to somehow hit the affordability level or they will go out of business and the countries like China who mass produce at low cost will mop up.
Its all in transition at the moment and if people can only afford diesel or petrol then that is what they will buy.
One thing becoming apparent is that the electric car batteries are now up to 20 years life expectancy which will help the second hand market.
These breaks will fade away in time and car manufacturers will have to somehow hit the affordability level or they will go out of business and the countries like China who mass produce at low cost will mop up.
Its all in transition at the moment and if people can only afford diesel or petrol then that is what they will buy.
One thing becoming apparent is that the electric car batteries are now up to 20 years life expectancy which will help the second hand market.
It doesn't exist for the masses though does it. You may well be able to afford an EV but for the average driver it will be a very long time before they are driving EV's
Its great if your rich but not so if your struggling to make ends meet.
Hardly something worth celebrating.
I didn't say 9 year old cars are bangers I said
" This is the average age so many will be driving cars that are much older and worth considerably less.
People dont usually drive an old banger by choice its because its all they can afford. "
I doubt very much your millionaire neighbours are using a 15 year old Saab as there main car.
Last edited:
I don't think anyone has said anywhere that they are for everyone yet. This whole process is long and phased and will continue to be. The one and only point is simply that the range of options just continues to grow. You seem to be picking on an area I can't recall anyone having claimed is widely supported by the EV market. There was a time only rich people could afford a TV, or a home PC or a mobile phone, even a motor car. Early adopters pave the way for the creation of a mass market which over time leads to prices dropping and more options becoming available. Here's another area they aren't so hot at yet, towing.
As an aside I'd kind of agree, I'd reckon there is a large chunk of these ~9 year old cars that are 2nd or 3rd cars as well.
Last edited:
SmallTown
Well-known member
Mate, I'll repeat it again because you seem to have missed it the first time: The price of second hand EV are dropping. So no, they aren't just the preserve of the rich anymore. They whole point of the thread is this
SmallTown
Well-known member
Towing is an interesting one isn't it? EV motors can produce massive amount of torque so towing should be easy but (and I don't say this often) when towing range is an issue. We all know towing drastically reduces your MPG in an ICE car but it really affects EV more and I'm not sure why?
Also not sure what the solution is. Unless we start putting batteries in trailers and caravans to provide extra power?
They may well be dropping but they are still out of reach for the average motorist.
Let me repeat myself as you must of missed it.
The average age of a car on the road today is 9 years old. You can get a 9 year old car for 5k comfortably, probably less.
How do you get the average motorist into an EV for less than 5k when according too Auto trader there are less than 300 EV's under 5k available for sale in the UK at the moment.
There will be millions of average motorists in the UK so the 1st 300 have a chance but after that your stuffed.
Literally on the 1st page someone was talking about a 90k car, I know people who live in houses that are worth less.
The reality is an affordable used EV for the masses is possibly decades away.
What happens is, over time cars get older, and people sell them, then people buy them and people sell them on. This takes time, again I don't think anyone here argues that.
Again, the point of the thread is the situation keeps improving, which it does. EVs are now an option for more people than they were 5, or 10 years ago. In 5 or 10 years time they will be an option for more people still.
I am not sure where the issue is. There are solutions for everyone out there over ICE, hybrid and EV solutions and there will continue to be for many many years to come.
BoroMart
Well-known member
It's simple supply and demand 9 years ago, very few people owned an EV, the demand was low, there are realtively few EVs bought 9 years ago, that are on sale now, compared to the number of people looking to buy a second hand EV.
The price of second hand EVs is falling as the supply demand ratio of those cars is adjusting but it'll probably take another 10 years to really balance out.