"Nobody in their right mind would buy a used EV..."

It is a relatively new technology, as far as massed car production goes.

Somehow, car makers need to come up with a way to swap out batteries so that people are not lumbered with old ones because the cost to replace them is so high.

We love our Nissan Leaf for pottering around town but we learned that long distances are still a problem for EV because of the lack of infrastructure.
A long with nationalised rail, it would be fantastic to have a nationalised EV charger scheme that we could all buy into safe in the knowledge that profits will be reinvested.
 
MoggasDog said:
It is a relatively new technology, as far as massed car production goes.

Somehow, car makers need to come up with a way to swap out batteries so that people are not lumbered with old ones because the cost to replace them is so high.

We love our Nissan Leaf for pottering around town but we learned that long distances are still a problem for EV because of the lack of infrastructure.
A long with nationalised rail, it would be fantastic to have a nationalised EV charger scheme that we could all buy into safe in the knowledge that profits will be reinvested.
Click to expand...
Is the cost so high? A £90k car battery is about 9k to replace. You might get a cheaper engine replacement on a perform car at that price but it's not going to be a life changing difference and that's all assuming it is out of warranty etc

Our car's range is about 280 miles and we've done longer journeys with a 30 minute charge. Most People don't need that though, average uk mileage is about 7400 miles a year - 616 miles a month, 142 miles a week, 20 miles a day. Vast majority of people won't have these issues yet on threads about EV's we always get caught up in the difficulties of driving lands end to John o'groats.
 
Genuine question, what happens if you run out? In the olden days the AA would have had a can of fuel to get you to a station.
 
MoggasDog said:
It is a relatively new technology, as far as massed car production goes.

Somehow, car makers need to come up with a way to swap out batteries so that people are not lumbered with old ones because the cost to replace them is so high.

We love our Nissan Leaf for pottering around town but we learned that long distances are still a problem for EV because of the lack of infrastructure.
A long with nationalised rail, it would be fantastic to have a nationalised EV charger scheme that we could all buy into safe in the knowledge that profits will be reinvested.
Click to expand...
I disagree with this. Nio DO swap out batteries but I don't like the idea at all. The process is cumbersome and I don't like the idea of changing such a critical component frequently.

I also disagree about the "lack if infrastructure" comment. There are more public chargers than there are petrol stations
 
MoggasDog said:
Somehow, car makers need to come up with a way to swap out batteries so that people are not lumbered with old ones because the cost to replace them is so high.

We love our Nissan Leaf for pottering around town but we learned that long distances are still a problem for EV because of the lack of infrastructure.
A long with nationalised rail, it would be fantastic to have a nationalised EV charger scheme that we could all buy into safe in the knowledge that profits will be reinvested.
Click to expand...
Nah, they don't, it's a "problem" which does not need solving, it's never really been a problem and even if it was, it's pretty much already been solved.

There's 8+ year old Tesla's driving around with over 400,000 miles on the clock which are still on the original motors and battery, and the battery has >75% life left in it. I think it's fair to assume the batteries have got better, not worse etc. Obviously Tesla was a brand new manufacturer back then also, so it's probably fair to assume they would be less reliable than other car makers.


It's cheaper to just make the battery work, and make it last, than it is to base an entire car design around needing to change it in an extreme one off event.

Manufacturers don't want to be shipping out duff batteries which need replacing, when they're warrantying them for 8 years or 100k mile etc, it's easier and cheaper to just make them work/ last. If they were a problem Tesla would have went bust years ago. They're all using the same cells from the same cell manufacturers etc (Panasonic and LG).

There's going to be tons of people willing to buy 8 year old ex 250 mile range cars which have degraded 20%, they still have 200 miles range on them, which is more than most people need overall.

The long trips in small battery cars won't make much sense, but for most they're a one off, they're not doing that every week or they would have bought a car with a longer range etc.

I think more faster chargers, at key locations (motorways and A-roads), is much more important than more slower chargers, there's already loads of those. Also they need to make the cost of using these cheaper, as charging 60p per unit when they're paying 15p per unit is daylight robbery.

Solid state batteries are now in production and being put in cars now also, this will make a big difference in may ways.
 
Ingleby_Flash said:
Genuine question, what happens if you run out? In the olden days the AA would have had a can of fuel to get you to a station.
Click to expand...
You don't! lol. EV are incredibly good it predicting range left. I've got to chargers with 1-2% left thanks to their accuracy. But if you are bad enough to do this, RAC now have boost chargers to get you to your nearest public charger
 
Ingleby_Flash said:
Genuine question, what happens if you run out? In the olden days the AA would have had a can of fuel to get you to a station.
Click to expand...
I think a lot of them have a small battery on board to give you enough charge to get to a charger, or they just tow you to the charger. I imagine when you speak to them they will ask what the car and fuel is in advance etc. Never had that problem mind, although did come close in my first week of ownership a few years back 😆

Quite a few recovery vans are actually electric themselves, this makes sense as they could service both types etc.

I imagine it was more of a problem in the early days when there were not many EV's, but there's loads now and I've not noticed anyone walking down the road lugging a battery, like I've seen a few with petrol cans. Good luck carrying a battery mind!
 
SmallTown said:
You don't! lol. EV are incredibly good it predicting range left. I've got to chargers with 1-2% left thanks to their accuracy. But if you are bad enough to do this, RAC now have boost chargers to get you to your nearest public charger
Click to expand...
Even without that surely they'd just tow you? Regen might even then top you part up anyway 😂
 
ThatFragranceGuy said:
Is the cost so high? A £90k car battery is about 9k to replace. You might get a cheaper engine replacement on a perform car at that price but it's not going to be a life changing difference and that's all assuming it is out of warranty etc

Our car's range is about 280 miles and we've done longer journeys with a 30 minute charge. Most People don't need that though, average uk mileage is about 7400 miles a year - 616 miles a month, 142 miles a week, 20 miles a day. Vast majority of people won't have these issues yet on threads about EV's we always get caught up in the difficulties of driving lands end to John o'groats.
Click to expand...
Ingleby_Flash said:
Genuine question, what happens if you run out? In the olden days the AA would have had a can of fuel to get you to a station.
Click to expand...
I have a Outlander PHEV that is in very good nick. But the battery is maybe 50% what it was.
I would love to upgrade the batteries but it would costs far more than the car is worth.

As for running out of battery - you would need to be put onto the back of a low loader - charging from another battery would take hours and hours
 
ThatFragranceGuy said:
Is the cost so high? A £90k car battery is about 9k to replace. You might get a cheaper engine replacement on a perform car at that price but it's not going to be a life changing difference and that's all assuming it is out of warranty etc

Our car's range is about 280 miles and we've done longer journeys with a 30 minute charge. Most People don't need that though, average uk mileage is about 7400 miles a year - 616 miles a month, 142 miles a week, 20 miles a day. Vast majority of people won't have these issues yet on threads about EV's we always get caught up in the difficulties of driving lands end to John o'groats.
Click to expand...
On my BMW 430i (a 45k car) the last petrol car I had before I started on EV's a new engine was like 12k and 5k to fit, from what I remember. I looked it up before I got an EV, when I was doing my due diligence. I bet an M3 engine is probably another 5k on top, even though it's probably largely the same thing.

Have to factor with EV's that it's the motor driving the car though, not the battery, so fair to lump battery and motor as the same thing as an engine, although you're never likely to need to change both battery and motor.

There's no 430i or M3 engines lasting 400k miles with little issue and maintenance though, that's for sure.
 
SmallTown said:
There are more public chargers than there are petrol stations
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well petrol pumps rather than stations would be a better comparison to charge points, and then factor in say 2 minutes to fill up with fuel vs 30 mins to do a top up charge, and also factor in range of say 250 average for EV (although 30mins prob only gets you 150 miles) vs 2 mins fuel top up get you maybe 400 miles?
 
t4tomo said:
well petrol pumps rather than stations would be a better comparison to charge points, and then factor in say 2 minutes to fill up with fuel vs 30 mins to do a top up charge, and also factor in range of say 250 average for EV (although 30mins prob only gets you 150 miles) vs 2 mins fuel top up get you maybe 400 miles?
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The question was about infrastructure. Which is fine and is growing with need.

Your comments about times probably ignore the fact that 60% of EV owners don't need public chargers or any wait time to refuel 99% of the time. Remember that. I think that's the key thing about EV and why people seem against it. They struggle to understand the new way of refuelling
 
MoggasDog said:
I have a Outlander PHEV that is in very good nick. But the battery is maybe 50% what it was.
I would love to upgrade the batteries but it would costs far more than the car is worth.

As for running out of battery - you would need to be put onto the back of a low loader - charging from another battery would take hours and hours
Click to expand...
There's is a huge difference between an old hybrid and a battery EV.

You don't have to put the car on a low loader. As I have said. The likelihood of it happening is small too
 
MoggasDog said:
I have a Outlander PHEV that is in very good nick. But the battery is maybe 50% what it was.
I would love to upgrade the batteries but it would costs far more than the car is worth.

As for running out of battery - you would need to be put onto the back of a low loader - charging from another battery would take hours and hours
Click to expand...
Since 2022 RAC recovery vans have had a 5kW genny in them, so can dish out 10 miles in ~ half an hour, I imagine they're even better than this now.

The bigger recovery trucks can dish out much faster than this too, some up to 120kW.
 
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