Neymar! One of the greats……no?

jonny_greenings_sock

Well-known member
I think he’s brilliant and will be remembered as Brazil’s main man for this generation, but more of a very good player than an all-time great one. He’s certainly not in the conversation with the legends like Maradona, Pele, Gullit, Messi & Ronaldo etc.

More of a Rivaldo than a Ronaldo Nazaria.

I’m also not sure he’d get on the bench for all time Brazil team.
 

Loop

Active member
If he'd have stayed at Barca he'd have cemented himself as the 3rd best behind Ronaldo in his era. His move to PSG killed his progress unfortunately, he's still such a talented player though.
 

Paulh10

Well-known member
I think Neymar is known to be a cheat more than for one of the greatest.No doubt has talent but overshadowed by his constant cheating over the years which puts of far to many people.Far many greats ahead of him .Diego maradona cheated England we all know but wasn't on Neymar level.
 

jonny_greenings_sock

Well-known member
Yeah, there’s a layer below the absolute all-time greatest players and it’s no shame to be a part of it, but I think you can win a lot of trophies and some Ballon D’Ors and still not crack that tier.

Of our generation, Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo, no doubt about it. Does Zidane make it? Maybe. Xavi? Won everything there was to win, unbelievable player, but not Maradona level genius. Thierry Henry? Don’t think so. Luka Modric? Pirlo? Figo? Even Ronaldinho?
 

Chutney

Well-known member
Yeah, there’s a layer below the absolute all-time greatest players and it’s no shame to be a part of it, but I think you can win a lot of trophies and some Ballon D’Ors and still not crack that tier.

Of our generation, Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo, no doubt about it. Does Zidane make it? Maybe. Xavi? Won everything there was to win, unbelievable player, but not Maradona level genius. Thierry Henry? Don’t think so. Luka Modric? Pirlo? Figo? Even Ronaldinho?
Some interesting suggestions there.

Xavi didn't have the extraordinary abilities of the likes of Maradona or Proper Ronaldo, but he did something different and simple to such an astonishingly effective extent you'd have to put him very very close. Not to mention the platform him and Iniesta gave Messi - I honestly don't think you can appraise Messi's Barcelona years and not give some credit to the levels he achieved to those two.

Pirlo I'd put on a level with Xavi as well - all he lacked was the same calibre of teammates.

Zidane was extraordinary, never sure why he doesn't get mentioned more in these discussions, because on his day he had everything.

Henry the best I've ever seen in the flesh. Watching him always softened the blow of getting hammered by Arsenal over and over again.

Ronaldinho was just astonishing, a circus act, but not a show pony - the stuff he did made a difference.

This is why I hate this whole GOAT thing being reduced to numbers, it's so joyless. CR has accumulated a filing cabinet full of evidence to call himself the best ever, but very little for me in terms of memories. I don't really care about "best", "favourite" will do for me. Aside from the above, there's no player I ever enjoyed watching more than Gheorghe Hagi. Not as consistent or high achieving as those in the debate, but every bit as good and an absolute delight to watch.
 

jonny_greenings_sock

Well-known member
I totally agree with all of that.

Henry also the best player I’ve seen in the flesh. Amazing that he’s not rated at god level, because he was the best Premier League player - by a mile - for many seasons. Think if he’d done that at Barca and won a World Cup he might be in there, but weird how he’s not rated as the best player of that generation by people who didn’t have the misfortune of playing Arsenal twice a year!

You’re bang on about Xavi as well. He’s very, very close. And I think Zidane makes it into the book of legends alongside Platini and the likes of van Basten.
 

Diego

Well-known member
Thought he was unreal for a couple of seasons at Barca with Messi and Suarez and looked like he was gonna be top dog one day. For whatever reason that hasn’t materialised, I find him hard to like now a days. Too much drama
 

Chutney

Well-known member
I totally agree with all of that.

Henry also the best player I’ve seen in the flesh. Amazing that he’s not rated at god level, because he was the best Premier League player - by a mile - for many seasons. Think if he’d done that at Barca and won a World Cup he might be in there, but weird how he’s not rated as the best player of that generation by people who didn’t have the misfortune of playing Arsenal twice a year!

You’re bang on about Xavi as well. He’s very, very close. And I think Zidane makes it into the book of legends alongside Platini and the likes of van Basten.
Henry did win a world cup though. But that was when he was an above average winger, not the genius striker he became. No one thinking about France 98 immediately thinks "Oh yeah, Thierry Henry".

van Basten's another good one - shortened career rules him out on the dullards' scale, but on quality over quantity - right up there.
 

jonny_greenings_sock

Well-known member
Henry did win a world cup though. But that was when he was an above average winger, not the genius striker he became. No one thinking about France 98 immediately thinks "Oh yeah, Thierry Henry".

van Basten's another good one - shortened career rules him out on the dullards' scale, but on quality over quantity - right up there.
Was trying to think of great players from the 80s who might make the cut.

Diego obviously, then Gullit, van Basten, Platini, Maldini. Then… Dalglish? Bryan Robson? I’m def forgetting a few, to be fair I was young.
 

muniz

Active member
Thought he was unreal for a couple of seasons at Barca with Messi and Suarez and looked like he was gonna be top dog one day. For whatever reason that hasn’t materialised, I find him hard to like now a days. Too much drama
yeah braithwaite is great
 

changingman

Well-known member
The issue with Neymar for Brazil (and to some extent PSG) is his role in the team. Nearly every Brazilian last night had a pretty defined role, arguably in order to underline Neymar's free role. The two wingers for instance played high and wide, spreading the defence and giving Neymar more space in which to operate.

I'm not sure that actually plays to his strengths. Yes he can "float", picking up the ball, linking with team mates etc but it seemed like there is little purpose to his play beyond this.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the best form of his career was at Barca where he had a much clearer role and responsibilities.
 

festa5

Well-known member
Some interesting suggestions there.

Xavi didn't have the extraordinary abilities of the likes of Maradona or Proper Ronaldo, but he did something different and simple to such an astonishingly effective extent you'd have to put him very very close. Not to mention the platform him and Iniesta gave Messi - I honestly don't think you can appraise Messi's Barcelona years and not give some credit to the levels he achieved to those two.

Pirlo I'd put on a level with Xavi as well - all he lacked was the same calibre of teammates.

Zidane was extraordinary, never sure why he doesn't get mentioned more in these discussions, because on his day he had everything.

Henry the best I've ever seen in the flesh. Watching him always softened the blow of getting hammered by Arsenal over and over again.

Ronaldinho was just astonishing, a circus act, but not a show pony - the stuff he did made a difference.

This is why I hate this whole GOAT thing being reduced to numbers, it's so joyless. CR has accumulated a filing cabinet full of evidence to call himself the best ever, but very little for me in terms of memories. I don't really care about "best", "favourite" will do for me. Aside from the above, there's no player I ever enjoyed watching more than Gheorghe Hagi. Not as consistent or high achieving as those in the debate, but every bit as good and an absolute delight to watch.
I totally agree with all of that.

Henry also the best player I’ve seen in the flesh. Amazing that he’s not rated at god level, because he was the best Premier League player - by a mile - for many seasons. Think if he’d done that at Barca and won a World Cup he might be in there, but weird how he’s not rated as the best player of that generation by people who didn’t have the misfortune of playing Arsenal twice a year!

You’re bang on about Xavi as well. He’s very, very close. And I think Zidane makes it into the book of legends alongside Platini and the likes of van Basten.

I think Xavi is there for me. It's hard comparing players in different positions or even different styles. Forwards will always stand out more. To be fair for good reason, hardest thing in football is to score goals.

But has there ever been a better playmaker than Xavi? I'd argue for his role/position he was quite possibly the best of all time.
 

newyddion

Well-known member
———————Giroud——————
——-Witsel—Neymar—Bale———-
———-—-Kante—Matic—————-
Burn—Maguire—Lindelof—Dawson
————-—-????????——————

Southgate to Karanka era players that we almost should have but didn’t sign..
Who goes in goal? That back four looks a bit.. meh
 
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