Next Energy Price Cap Predictions....

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

I've said above how can we help, just give those worse off the extra cost, just subsidise their bills, and create a deficit, or tax the wealthy more to cover the defect. They won't do this, as they're Tories.

My replies are about why nationalising energy firms would have zero impact, and likely be an extremely bad idea for all taxpayers, especially those worst off.

I've given you some examples and explanations, of why nationalising is a bad idea, and what we could do to stop this problem in the future.

You haven't given any reason why nationalising is a bad idea. You've told us how it will have minimum effect on gas prices. Nationalisation would put another layer of profit into the public purse.

We made an @rse of most things in the early 80s and we're still making them today.

Our gas and oil resources are running low, we're relying on other countries supplying us already.

The UK is squandering its gas reserves

Amid soaring prices and talk of blackouts, we need to get serious about energy.

www.spiked-online.com

 

[Andy_W]

You haven't given any reason why nationalising is a bad idea. You've told us how it will have minimum effect on gas prices. Nationalisation would put another layer of profit into the public purse.

We made an @rse of most things in the early 80s and we're still making them today.

Our gas and oil resources are running low, we're relying on other countries supplying us already.

The UK is squandering its gas reserves

Amid soaring prices and talk of blackouts, we need to get serious about energy.

www.spiked-online.com

I have, we're bad at running things we nationalise, I gave Rail as an example, Highways aren't much better either.

With energy, nationalising a system based on historically relying on fossil fuels which we largely don't own, and are moving away from to hit emissions targets, seems like an extremely poor expenditure to buy all of those companies out. We can't just take them for nothing, it would likely cost hundreds of billions of pounds.

We have an option for the future to own our own solar and wind sites, but I wouldn't have us running them, that's for sure, not when we keep electing Tory governments. We need to largely forget Nuclear, it's too expensive here, because of problems we cause ourselves, but we will need an element of it to meet peak demand, unless we can lessen the impact of peak demand with energy storage.

My company installs major utilities, and we work on Rail, Highways, Nuclear, MOD sites etc, and I consult for all of that, it's not like I don't know these sectors, and how much red tape and over regulation there is, and how behind the times they all are.

 

[ForssAwakens]

I have, we're bad at running things we nationalise, I gave Rail as an example, Highways aren't much better either.

With energy, nationalising a system based on historically relying on fossil fuels which we largely don't own, and are moving away from to hit emissions targets, seems like an extremely poor expenditure to buy all of those companies out. We can't just take them for nothing, it would likely cost hundreds of billions of pounds.

We have an option for the future to own our own solar and wind sites, but I wouldn't have us running them, that's for sure, not when we keep electing Tory governments. We need to largely forget Nuclear, it's too expensive here, because of problems we cause ourselves, but we will need an element of it to meet peak demand, unless we can lessen the impact of peak demand with energy storage.

My company installs major utilities, and we work on Rail, Highways, Nuclear, MOD sites etc, and I consult for all of that, it's not like I don't know these sectors, and how much red tape and over regulation there is, and how behind the times they all are.

The rail isn’t fully nationalised neither is highway. Is all sub contracted out for profit. That’s what the government do when the tories have been in charge 75% of the time

 

[Andy_W]

The rail isn’t fully nationalised neither is highway. Is all sub contracted out for profit. That’s what the government do when the tories have been in charge 75% of the time

NR own/ operate the tracks/ land (which the other operators fund through ticket prices etc), and Highways own all the motorways and major a-roads and councils look after the rest (also badly ran in those sectors). It's easier to work on council jobs though as they're so clueless they don't really get in the way too much, but they pay the same rates, so end up getting done over on the price.

The energy sector, especially distribution/ construction is massively reliant on sub contractors, that's also why rates have massively increased, and they're on a feedback loop as the sub contractors heavily rely on fuel and labour. Fuel goes up, so costs to sub contract go up, which drives up energy cost, which drives up inflation, which drives up labour/ material costs, which drives up sub contract cost, which drives up energy cost and so on.

A lot of large highways and rail schemes we work on have a target profit of ~1%, some bidders bid 0% profit (like what Interserve used to try) and try and **** over the subbies to get the profit. The scheme might cost 100m, so they make 1m, but if the cost gets jacked up to 150m, then they make 1.5m.
Some subbies break even or make little (usually non specialist stuff), some have very high profits (usually specialists), nationalisation won't touch those, only through corporation tax etc.

 

[weemoby]

I’ve had the heating switched off completely since about April. Probably won’t be able to even turn it back on in the winter. I just don’t have the money to pay anymore than I was, I’m incredibly worried about money this winter.

I'm very sorry to read that LowMoor. I hope that things improve for you.
It saddens me to think people are worried that they will be unable to heat their homes this upcoming winter. We are in a scandalous situation.

Take care my fellow Boro fan.

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

NR own/ operate the tracks/ land (which the other operators fund through ticket prices etc), and Highways own all the motorways and major a-roads and councils look after the rest (also badly ran in those sectors). It's easier to work on council jobs though as they're so clueless they don't really get in the way too much, but they pay the same rates, so end up getting done over on the price.

The energy sector, especially distribution/ construction is massively reliant on sub contractors, that's also why rates have massively increased, and they're on a feedback loop as the sub contractors heavily rely on fuel and labour. Fuel goes up, so costs to sub contract go up, which drives up energy cost, which drives up inflation, which drives up labour/ material costs, which drives up sub contract cost, which drives up energy cost and so on.

A lot of large highways and rail schemes we work on have a target profit of ~1%, some bidders bid 0% profit (like what Interserve used to try) and try and **** over the subbies to get the profit. The scheme might cost 100m, so they make 1m, but if the cost gets jacked up to 150m, then they make 1.5m.
Some subbies break even or make little (usually non specialist stuff), some have very high profits (usually specialists), nationalisation won't touch those, only through corporation tax etc.

The reliance on sub contractors is littered throughout former nationalised industries and institutions. Each layer and company involved has to take their slice of the pie. Each different company operating the rail system leads to more and more bureaucracy.

I've worked in the private sector for most of my life, in a number of countries, and I can tell you that it's as inefficient as the public sector. The only difference being that there was more accountability to be proven in the public sector.

 

[ForssAwakens]

The reliance on sub contractors is littered throughout former nationalised industries and institutions. Each layer and company involved has to take their slice of the pie. Each different company operating the rail system leads to more and more bureaucracy.

I've worked in the private sector for most of my life, in a number of countries, and I can tell you that it's as inefficient as the public sector. The only difference being that there was more accountability to be proven in the public sector.

Your wasting your time. In one ear out the other and every reply is 5 paragraphs long to make it look like he knows what he talking about (seemingly on every subject) without referencing anything whatsoever

 

[Gunslinger]

A lot of people in the winter could benefit by hiring a thermal camera to look for cold voids in their houses.......the amount of money that literally ***** out of the walls and celings in peoples houses due to poor insulation defies belief, especially in all the new builds who just take as many short cuts as possible...don't expect the buildings inspectors to get off their arses to actually check anything, had the same issue myself on a new persimmon build, insulaton missing everywhere, signed off by durham county council building inspectors, there was square meter gaps in the loft insulaton, just a suggestion

 

[Andy_W]

The reliance on sub contractors is littered throughout former nationalised industries and institutions. Each layer and company involved has to take their slice of the pie. Each different company operating the rail system leads to more and more bureaucracy.

I've worked in the private sector for most of my life, in a number of countries, and I can tell you that it's as inefficient as the public sector. The only difference being that there was more accountability to be proven in the public sector.

We don't need the levels of bureaucracy though, most of it comes from requirements from the top down, dished out from incompetent people trying to check out what competent people are doing, rail is laughable for this. I'm not saying it's easy mind, as they oversee a number of sub-contractors/ specialists. A load of it also comes from people trying to justify their job, so just create needless/ endless additional forms/ paperwork.

I work for both sectors too, from my experience the public sector is far worse for inefficiency/ accountability, it's like they have a blank book on time and cost, as it's not their time/ money etc.

Loads of public sector jobs go on day rate, where they could be fixed price, but the problem is the subbies don't want fixed price as they know how badly the projects will be ran from above. They can claim for this of course, but it's another level of paperwork which the subby's don't want, and they don't ever get to claim what they deserve anyway.

 

[Andy_W]

Your wasting your time. In one ear out the other and every reply is 5 paragraphs long to make it look like he knows what he talking about (seemingly on every subject) without referencing anything whatsoever

You don't offer any detail why anything is wrong, just typing a one liner saying "that's wrong" without any explanation or back up to your comments, which doesn't make it so. At least I'm trying to explain it.

You offered France as an example of how we should be like them, but they planned for all of this (any scenario) decades ago, so have a lot more tools at their disposal. We do need to be more like them though, and plan for the future/ energy independence, but this can't be done instantly. I expect most party manifesto's will be highlighting this need for energy independence (largely from green sources), it's too late to have an impact now, but should be better for the future.

These are all widely known facts, which shouldn't need references (don't want to make posts longer than they already are):
We rely heavily on gas (obviously for 100% of gas appliances, but it supplies ~40% of our electric too)
We don't own/ provide much of our own gas (half comes from the North Sea, but a 1/3rd of that is from Norway)
As we don't have much of our own gas, we can't set the price on gas, the wider market does that
We have little nuclear, what we're adding is way over budget, and should have been installed decades ago if we wanted to be self reliant
France has loads of nuclear, which it installed years ago, relatively cheaply compared to us. The main reason for this was to go self reliant (good move)
Nuclear is extremely expensive in the UK, compared to pretty much every other generation method, it's still a good source mind, to cover demand when wind/ solar drop, but biomass is cheaper.
Our rail network is behind the times, for our supposed "level", and extremely expensive for passengers. We all know how bad the roads are.
You can't nationalise something, without buying out the private company that currently owns it (this is theft), that is obviously going to be expensive (and need to be paid for by the tax payer)

 

[London_Boro]

I'm yet to have a bill since it all went nuts. Am not looking forward to it. British Gas have not changed my DD payments as they usually would so am still paying £96 per month. I reckon I'm in for a whopper or a shortfall bill

:oops:

 

[ForssAwakens]

You don't offer any detail why anything is wrong, just typing a one liner saying "that's wrong" without any explanation or back up to your comments, which doesn't make it so. At least I'm trying to explain it.

You offered France as an example of how we should be like them, but they planned for all of this (any scenario) decades ago, so have a lot more tools at their disposal. We do need to be more like them though, and plan for the future/ energy independence, but this can't be done instantly. I expect most party manifesto's will be highlighting this need for energy independence (largely from green sources), it's too late to have an impact now, but should be better for the future.

These are all widely known facts, which shouldn't need references (don't want to make posts longer than they already are):
We rely heavily on gas (obviously for 100% of gas appliances, but it supplies ~40% of our electric too)
We don't own/ provide much of our own gas (half comes from the North Sea, but a 1/3rd of that is from Norway)
As we don't have much of our own gas, we can't set the price on gas, the wider market does that
We have little nuclear, what we're adding is way over budget, and should have been installed decades ago if we wanted to be self reliant
France has loads of nuclear, which it installed years ago, relatively cheaply compared to us. The main reason for this was to go self reliant (good move)
Nuclear is extremely expensive in the UK, compared to pretty much every other generation method, it's still a good source mind, to cover demand when wind/ solar drop, but biomass is cheaper.
Our rail network is behind the times, for our supposed "level", and extremely expensive for passengers. We all know how bad the roads are.
You can't nationalise something, without buying out the private company that currently owns it (this is theft), that is obviously going to be expensive (and need to be paid for by the tax payer)

Don’t want to make posts any longer than they are

Looks governments can do what they want as the have the power to pass bills. France stopped the energy companies going any further than 4% increases to protect their people.

The government can step in and do what they want to support people, as covid proved

 

[ForssAwakens]

. A load of it also comes from people trying to justify their job, so just create needless/ endless additional forms/ paperwork.

Evidence?

 

[Andy_W]

Don’t want to make posts any longer than they are

Looks governments can do what they want as the have the power to pass bills. France stopped the energy companies going any further than 4% increases to protect their people.

The government can step in and do what they want to support people, as covid proved

Yeah, and I've said for them to do that, by footing the increased cost of the extra, to those who need it, and taxing the most well off to cover that, but they won't do that, as they're Tories.

France also cut down on their exports, which means the likes of us miss out on their imports, but like I keep saying, they can do this as they planned to cover this scenario decades ago, we didn't and you can't just flick a switch and have 50 more nuclear plants.

As for Covid, this wasn't free, as you should know, and the books need to balance, they will just cut other public services to cover it. Or they just carry out QE, which later comes back to bite them in the ****, like it is now.

 

[Andy_W]

Evidence?

Just personal experience (15 years) in the utilities sector working on highways/ rail/ housing schemes etc, anyone in those sectors would likely agree, just like countless mates and colleagues in the industry do.

The paperwork now required on highways/ rail schemes is laughable, even for relatively basic/ low risk works, where a basic installation could be carried out for 10k back in 2010, it's now 20k plus another 30k just for the reports. Whether that's the A1L2B scheme, Testo's, Silverlink, A19 upgrades, A174/A19 rbt, HS2 etc, we've worked on the lot. It's similar for housing developments too (worked on loads of the local ones), the amount if hoops to jump through increases every year, and it puts up cost every year.

What sector do you work in?

 

[Johngannonsunderpants]

The farmer where we keep our horses has just whinged at my Mrs for turning the lights on so she could muck the stables out, the barn has no sky lights and while you can see where your going in the isles in the stables it’s pretty much black regardless of what time of the day it is. Going to be an interesting Conversation when I go there this afternoon and point out his legal responsibilities and what will / could happen to him if someone has an accident because he’s trying to save a few pennies.

Bet he votes Conservative.

 

[viv_andersons_nana]

Our gas and electricity bills tripled this year. Our mortgage repayments are going to increase in September. Home insurance went up. Train fares to work have increased, as has the price of food and petrol. Last time I went out for a couple of post-work drinks in London, about three weeks ago, it was £7.50 a pint in a pub that was charging £6.00 just a couple of weeks prior. The Southbank charged us £19 for two small plastic cups of red wine when we went there a few Fridays back. The prices are going up absolutely everywhere, on everything. I went to the local shop for a pint of milk last night and it was 30p more expensive than it was about ten days ago.

I just don't understand what the end game is with this. People just won't be able to pay for things. The more frivolous things will go and then the bills will be in arrears and then the mortgages or rent or loan repayments...

What is the point of this, of making a population so financially squeezed to the point where society will just disintegrate? On the back of 12 years of austerity.

It's disgusting.

 

[sherlock]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1552333029951131648

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

The capitalists are taking the pish.

 

[boroboy6872]

new cap prediction is bad reading and can`t imagine the struggles some will face in the next year as a minimum.

Just as a note -

Didn`t realise that my boiler has a summer setting....used to traditional gravity fed system....so might be worth checking the boiler if it`s combi, although I`m not sure what difference it makes as this type of boiler is new to me