Next Energy Price Cap Predictions....

thewanderer

Well-known member
Have a watch of this. It seems to be relatively simple technology and cheap to maintain once it’s installed. You can imagine new schools, hospitals and even housing projects having it under the foundations to supply cheap heat and electricity at peak times.

Really interesting. Was reading about the improvements in hydrogen electrolysis is happening way quicker than expected and efficiency is ahead of expectations too.
 

Fat_Dragon

Well-known member
Have a watch of this. It seems to be relatively simple technology and cheap to maintain once it’s installed. You can imagine new schools, hospitals and even housing projects having it under the foundations to supply cheap heat and electricity at peak times.

[M
Sounds very promising. I also think Solar Film will take off in the not too distant future. It’s very lightweight and flexible unlike solar panels and can be put on just about anything like cars, buses, HGV, roofs, sides of buildings, headphones, speakers etc…

 

truck

Well-known member
Did anybody listen to Martin Lewis talking about the negotiations with the energy companies?

He was saying that the government weren't involved because they haven't got their act together, they're basically not governing.
given the week we have had politically with all the resignations, is there anyone there to make a decision?
 

JM14

Well-known member
please check dontpay.uk.
collective action by the victims of corporate greed and a government that doesn't care about its people.
Really can’t stress how much of a bad idea that is, ruining your credit rating will cost you significantly more in the long term than the prices we’re seeing now
 

YouAreMyBoro

New member
We can't do much about reducing standing charges either, they cover the cost of new installations and maintaining the grid etc, and the cost of all of that has gone up due to inflation and lack of workers/ easy access of labour in those sectors.

If it was nationalised and we reduced standing charges, then that money would need to come from somewhere, so would likely come as additional tax (which is fine, if it's off the rich/ massive companies), or cuts to other public services like NHS, Schools, Highways, Councils or whatever. Obviously we all know who would take that hit in the current government, it would be the least well off, so they still end up paying either way. All of this is why we need those ***** out ASAP.

We can windfall tax the UK companies providing energy, but that would make them less competitive against those who aren't, and they also rely heavily on foreign imports which we have no price control over. I think we should still do this mind, and redistribute that to those who need it most, rather than using it to cut bills, but the Tory's won't do that. If you cut the bills across the board it's a tax cut to the big rich companies and people too.
If we nationalised we wouldn't need to pay dividends to shareholders so that would help.
 

Andy_W

Well-known member
Standing charges are also covering the cost of suppliers failing

Yup, I've had two go under.

This is the problem with it, you try and reduce rates, but then end up getting switched at the worst time as they only go under when times are bad, and then we have to bail these companies out or just let them die, and either way doesn't work out well for the customer/ taxpayer.

They should probably be forced to put some much of their turnover into a rainy day reserve, as things like this shouldn't be breaking companies which millions rely on. I suppose now is a bit of a 1 in 100, but that should be planned for, like it is in most sectors.
 

Andy_W

Well-known member
Why wouldn’t it make a difference, are you saying the government would look to make profit?

They make a profit with Network Rail, who are the most ridiculously inefficient/ incompetent company I often deal with. The public pays for those inefficiencies with the high ticket prices.

They would probably end up charging the same as standing charges won't change as they rely on the supply chain for installs, maintenance and labour (like my company provides), and the UK can't buy that whole sector out.

Then we also have the problem that we don't set the price of gas, largely as it's not ours, and even more so as it effectively goes to the highest bidder.

It would end up costing us the same, either in electric bills or tax, and these companies likely wouldn't have any profit if government ran, as it would likely become more inefficient than it already is, as we won't pay the price to get the best people running it. We would also have to buy these companies, out, which would cost an absolute fortune.

We need to not concentrate on the problem, we need to look at the cause, and that's where we get our energy from. We need to get away from importing, but it's not a short term fix. There really isn't a short term fix, other than subsidising the price, but there's no benefit to those worse off doing this, unless you fund it through taxing the most well off, which this government simply won't do.

Most of the new Tory candidates (who don't have a finance background) are already talking of slashing corporation tax to 15%, from 25%. Probably only Sunak understands why we can't do this, and hence why he's not going to do that if he gets PM.
They really should be dropping it to 20% for smaller companies (or keeping it the same) and hiking it to 30-35% for larger companies (even if only temporary), and cutting down on tax evasion. The latter is hard to do, but a small % turnover tax would help.
 
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Same_as_before

Well-known member
Two questions

1) How much do you think it will cost to buy these energy companies.

2) Where do you get the interest free loan to buy them..


All you need to find is the same COVID money tree
 

Andy_W

Well-known member
If we nationalised we wouldn't need to pay dividends to shareholders so that would help.

You would have to buy the shareholders shares though, when the don't want to sell (which means higher prices), which wouldn't help.

We could only nationalise the UK based companies, not sure if Shell and BP are still registered in the UK, but they do pay a higher corporation tax rate for the North Sea something like 30% and then another 10% on top of that, so those profits have already been heavily taxed before they get to pay out any dividends (the extra tax probably easily covers the payments out).

The UK companies wouldn't be enough to meet our needs either, so we would still end up paying higher rates on the imports.

There's no simple/ quick solution, other than sucking it out, but those worse off shouldn't have to (as they can't), so increasing taxes of the rich to cover, seems the only way to me, if they do actually want to do it (which the Tory's largely don't).
 

ForssAwakens

Well-known member
They make a profit with Network Rail, who are the most ridiculously inefficient/ incompetent company I often deal with. The public pays for those inefficiencies with the high ticket prices.

They would probably end up charging the same as standing charges won't change as they rely on the supply chain for installs, maintenance and labour (like my company provides), and the UK can't buy that whole sector out.

Then we also have the problem that we don't set the price of gas, largely as it's not ours, and even more so as it effectively goes to the highest bidder.

It would end up costing us the same, either in electric bills or tax, and these companies likely wouldn't have any profit if government ran, as it would likely become more inefficient than it already is, as we won't pay the price to get the best people running it. We would also have to buy these companies, out, which would cost an absolute fortune.

We need to not concentrate on the problem, we need to look at the cause, and that's where we get our energy from. We need to get away from importing, but it's not a short term fix. There really isn't a short term fix, other than subsidising the price, but there's no benefit to those worse off doing this, unless you fund it through taxing the most well off, which this government simply won't do.

Most of the new Tory candidates (who don't have a finance background) are already talking of slashing corporation tax to 15%, from 25%. Probably only Sunak understands why we can't do this, and hence why he's not going to do that if he gets PM.
They really should be dropping it to 20% for smaller companies (or keeping it the same) and hiking it to 30-35% for larger companies (even if only temporary), and cutting down on tax evasion. The latter is hard to do, but a small % turnover tax would help.
That’s a long reply to be way off the mark m.

You only have to look across the channel to see what a government can do, even when they don’t own 100% of it
 

Andy_W

Well-known member
Have a watch of this. It seems to be relatively simple technology and cheap to maintain once it’s installed. You can imagine new schools, hospitals and even housing projects having it under the foundations to supply cheap heat and electricity at peak times.


Yeah, it looks very promising doesn't it.

I've been a consultant on a few district heating schemes over the years, and my company has installed a few, I expected this to go up a lot before I even seen this sand battery thing.

Wouldn't be cheap installing the pipes for this, for homes, in established cities, unless we did it above ground, but installing to large industrial consumers would be simple enough. They should already be adding this infrastructure for new builds though, but they won't as we don't think ahead.
 

Andy_W

Well-known member
That’s a long reply to be way off the mark m.

You only have to look across the channel to see what a government can do, even when they don’t own 100% of it

We're not France. Have a look how their rail system compares to ours for example, they had cheap high speed rail in the 80's, we're not getting there until 2030 (and ours is no faster, far more expensive to install and far more expensive tickets. They thought of the future with their rail, and energy, we didn't.

They have a massive Nuclear Power infrastructure, which generates 70% of their electricity, which they run relatively cheaply, where as here it's pretty much the most expensive source of energy, and only supplies about 15%.

What France can do now, is helped by what they did decades ago with their energy, like it is with their rail.

They're also the worlds largest net exporter of electricity, again because of the above, and they won't be exporting for the same rate that they're paying for it domestically. Effectively we and others will largely be covering the cost of their domestic increases.

My posts above are saying we should become self dependent on energy, i.e do what France did decades ago. We would need to do it with largely wind and solar though, as we're crap/ expensive at Nuclear and the public complain about them all too much, which is why projects drag out and costs go up.
 
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ForssAwakens

Well-known member
We're not France. Have a look how their rail system compares to ours for example, they had cheap high speed rail in the 80's, we're not getting there until 2030 (and ours is no faster, far more expensive to install and far more expensive tickets. They thought of the future with their rail, and energy, we didn't.

They have a massive Nuclear Power infrastructure, which generates 70% of their electricity, which they run relatively cheaply, where as here it's pretty much the most expensive source of energy, and only supplies about 15%.

What France can do now, is helped by what they did decades ago with their energy, like it is with their rail.

They're also the worlds largest net exporter of electricity, again because of the above, and they won't be exporting for the same rate that they're paying for it domestically. Effectively we and others will largely be covering the cost of their domestic increases.

My posts above are saying we should become self dependent on energy, i.e do what France did decades ago. We would need to do it with largely wind and solar though, as we're crap/ expensive at Nuclear and the public complain about them all too much, which is why projects drag out and costs go up.
Most people/posts are asking for help. The government have it in their power to do so no matter the amount of paragraphs you write
 

Andy_W

Well-known member
Most people/posts are asking for help. The government have it in their power to do so no matter the amount of paragraphs you write

I've said above how can we help, just give those worse off the extra cost, just subsidise their bills, and create a deficit, or tax the wealthy more to cover the defect. They won't do this, as they're Tories.

My replies are about why nationalising energy firms would have zero impact, and likely be an extremely bad idea for all taxpayers, especially those worst off.

I've given you some examples and explanations, of why nationalising is a bad idea, and what we could do to stop this problem in the future.
 
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