Newcastle FFP
- Thread starter Gunslinger
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Magic Man
Well-known member
Brighton..?
Brighton are incredibly well run and doing very well with their transfer dealings but they finished 6th last season and they are 8th this season. They are nowhere near capable of competing with the teams at the very top. The below link shows that Brighton earned £174m in 21/22 and Man City earned £619m. Including allowable losses that gives City 3.1x more to spend per year than Brighton. They might be able to do well picking up young players and selling them for a profit but they are never going to be able to sign players like Haaland etc. They are performing similarly in the league to Man Utd and Chelsea but even they are allowed to spend 2.5-3x as much as Brighton so can have teams full of £300k per week players and Brighton have to sell their best players to those clubs so can't progress.
Premier League clubs by revenue 2022 | Statista
Manchester City was the English Premier League soccer club recording the highest revenue in the 2021/22 season.
www.statista.com
Finishing position in the league very strongly correlates with wage spending. You will always get under/overperforming but over the long run the teams that spend the most will perform the best so the real competition is who can earn the most money and not who can win the most trophies.
Magic Man
Well-known member
I understand and agree in the most part with what you are saying, however I was picking up on your point about it being the 'only way to compete' when in fact it isn't, and Brighton are currently proving that...
There's also an argument to suggest that, due to Brighton's model and the success they have from it, the longer they stay in the Premier League, the 'bigger' they will become and their revenue streams will increase on this basis (bigger sponsorship deals, bigger fan base, increase stadium capacity, bigger pre-season tours etc.), therefore increasing their spending power? Appreciate this would have to be a pretty long time, but I think that's what the likes of Newcastle are realising they're going to have to do.
Magic Man
Well-known member
They also have a category 1 academy now, which in theory should produce better youth prospects that would be 100% profit on the balance sheet...
Frozen Horse
Well-known member
I think Nano talks a lot of sense.
Brighton have had an incredible run of success in the transfer market, and fair play to them
They can compete with anyone over 90 minutes, but they're not close to cracking the top 4. The closer you get to that summit, the steeper it gets.
And they will have a bad transfer window in the next year or two, and once you start sliding, the championship isn't too far away.
It's Champions League money. The big clubs really don't care who is best of the rest but they want a closed shop for the Champions League. The majority of that is performance based as well so the smaller nations that automatically qualify get very little in comparison because they will lose a lot of matches. Brighton can never get anywhere near the finances of the top clubs without getting into the champions league on a regular basis.
This shows how much each team made in the Champions League last season. £149m for City. That's nearly as much as Brighton's entire revenue total.
Clubs' revenues in the 2022/23 Champions League
www.footballfinance.de
The Swiss Ramble shows a bit of detail about how much the Champions League is worth this season. Some of these clubs are closing in on £100m before they've even reached the knockouts:
Champions League Revenue 2023/24 (after group stage)
Baby, The Stars Shine Bright
swissramble.substack.com
It's basically impossible to become successful the old way, by just constantly improving and growing naturally, because the closer you get to the top the more money is needed to keep on climbing. Brighton will hit a ceiling very shortly where they will consistently be the best and trying to break into the champions league places is a huge gamble. Everton had that problem and now look at the state they are in. They were just outside the champions league regularly but couldn't quite crack it so they spent a lot of money to try and do it but failed and are now looking at relegation instead of champions league.
Cress
Well-known member
Adam Crafton
@AdamCrafton_
·
20m
Jonny Ingbar
Well-known member
The problem is that each respective league, and UEFA too, are all intentionally enriching the biggest clubs, because it grows their own brand and in turn makes it more valuable.It's Champions League money. The big clubs really don't care who is best of the rest but they want a closed shop for the Champions League. The majority of that is performance based as well so the smaller nations that automatically qualify get very little in comparison because they will lose a lot of matches. Brighton can never get anywhere near the finances of the top clubs without getting into the champions league on a regular basis.
This shows how much each team made in the Champions League last season. £149m for City. That's nearly as much as Brighton's entire revenue total.
Clubs' revenues in the 2022/23 Champions League
The Swiss Ramble shows a bit of detail about how much the Champions League is worth this season. Some of these clubs are closing in on £100m before they've even reached the knockouts:
Champions League Revenue 2023/24 (after group stage)
Baby, The Stars Shine Bright
It's basically impossible to become successful the old way, by just constantly improving and growing naturally, because the closer you get to the top the more money is needed to keep on climbing. Brighton will hit a ceiling very shortly where they will consistently be the best and trying to break into the champions league places is a huge gamble. Everton had that problem and now look at the state they are in. They were just outside the champions league regularly but couldn't quite crack it so they spent a lot of money to try and do it but failed and are now looking at relegation instead of champions league.
There is no incentive or advantage in not doing so - it may enable a much broader section of clubs to be competitive, both domestically and in Europe, but that's precisely what the controlling bodies don't want.
As much as it seems that Man City have systematically breached the rules, they have nevertheless been brilliant for the EPL, in terms of profile, competitiveness and cashflow.
LowMoorBoro
Well-known member
Can’t see him signing for either team, Barcelona only seen to sign players with ludicrous instalments or on loan.
Real Madrid if they sign Mbappe won’t give in for him either
SmoggyRambo
Active member
That’s exactly why Real Madrid are the main proponents of the ESL because they’ve got the Spanish league between them and Barcelona effectively sewn up. They’ve built their branding around being the best in Europe/The World, and they are falling behind EPL clubs in terms of investment and revenue. They’re falling behind because the global audiences don’t want to see a two horse race every year in the La Liga, the EPL is only slightly better but you could potentially see 5 or 6 clubs challenging for the title.. (albeit against Man City).
Those clubs love FFP it keeps them at the top unchallenged.
FFP rules leaves most clubs restrained from investment, but then your also up against those who don’t abide/ get round the rules. Meaning clubs/fans lower down get double fisted.
(Gary Neville asked the new head UEFA about this (who was then branding himself as a reformer) and he effectively said a business from Slovakia would never be able to compete with a Business from the UK and football is the same) that’s what we’re up against.
afcb_acklam
Well-known member
not at all related, but I hadn't realised graeme carrick, michaels brother, is under 18 coach at newcastle - thats all!
VestasBoro
Well-known member
If they sell Anderson, Miley and Longstaff that'll be a good 25-30m profit. Can't see them wanting to sell all their homegrown players but 1 or 2 maybe alongside a couple from Burn, Bruno, Willock, Richie etc they'll find a way i imagine.
They'll sell the naming rights to absolutely everything, new sponsorship deals left right and centre. The ball boys will be sponsored by an airline, the penalty spots by a hotel etc.
Worflags, brought to you by SAUDI AIRLINES
They'll sell the naming rights to absolutely everything, new sponsorship deals left right and centre. The ball boys will be sponsored by an airline, the penalty spots by a hotel etc.
Worflags, brought to you by SAUDI AIRLINES
Champions League teams have to have so many players that are homegrown. They won't flog all of their players that are eligible for that criteria. 8 homegrown players is easy as that's just anyone coming through an English academy but 4 being from the club's youth system is harder if you want them to have any impact or you are essentially restricting yourself to a 21 man squad for the CL.
Brighton obviously depend highly on their recruitment of young / untapped talent being better than their rivals and the selling them for huge profits. Something they have done very well over recent years hence their recent success. There is an element of luck involved in that. To find 3 or 4 unknown diamonds year upon year to continue to compete is very very difficult.Brighton are incredibly well run and doing very well with their transfer dealings but they finished 6th last season and they are 8th this season. They are nowhere near capable of competing with the teams at the very top. The below link shows that Brighton earned £174m in 21/22 and Man City earned £619m. Including allowable losses that gives City 3.1x more to spend per year than Brighton. They might be able to do well picking up young players and selling them for a profit but they are never going to be able to sign players like Haaland etc. They are performing similarly in the league to Man Utd and Chelsea but even they are allowed to spend 2.5-3x as much as Brighton so can have teams full of £300k per week players and Brighton have to sell their best players to those clubs so can't progress.
Premier League clubs by revenue 2022 | Statista
Manchester City was the English Premier League soccer club recording the highest revenue in the 2021/22 season.
Finishing position in the league very strongly correlates with wage spending. You will always get under/overperforming but over the long run the teams that spend the most will perform the best so the real competition is who can earn the most money and not who can win the most trophies.
We seen it from Southampton where they had a good run and found players like Lallana, Mane, Shaw, Lovren, Scheiderlen (Sp) Oxlader-Chamberlain either through recruitment or through their academy.
We seen it where Leicester had a good run and a league title out of it with Mahrez, Vardy, Kante, Drinkwater and Maguire
But both of them clubs are playing Championship football this season. Brighton's luck will run out and they will eventually decline probably back into the Championship over the next 5 years.
The only clubs who can sustain success in the PL and show any sort of longevity are the teams who invest heavily. FFP now restricts the clubs who can invest heavily to the clubs who already have a worldwide fanbase and are already elite. FFP is widening the gap if anything.
Norman_Conquest
Well-known member
Adam Crafton
@AdamCrafton_
·
20m
EXCLUSIVE Newcastle chair Yasir Al Rumayyan faces $74m lawsuit for allegedly “having carried out instructions” of Saudi Crown Prince MBS, with “malicious intent” of “harming, silencing & ultimately destroying” family of Saudi ex-intelligence chief
I wonder if they will use it as part of the Financial Fair Play.
Newcastle chairman faces £58m lawsuit for ‘carrying out’ malicious instructions
Newcastle United’s chairman, Yasir al-Rumayyan, is alleged to have ‘carried out the instructions’ of Saudi Arabia’s crown prince Mohammad bin Salman with ‘malicious intent’
www.theguardian.com
BoroMart
Well-known member
Don't see why we wouldn't we made another big sale in Akpom, we have finally ridded ourselves of Britt and Fletcher off the FFP window 7 years after buying them. Should be plenty of wiggle room.
afcb_acklam
Well-known member
I'm watching newcastle u18's v bormuff u18's fa youth cup on youtube..... currently 0-5
jonny_greenings_sock
Well-known member
I wrote a long comment along these lines yesterday and deleted it, but I think I agree with you.
'Profit and sustainability' isn't leading to fair play and competitive balance. I get that it was designed to stop clubs spending more than they can afford. But in reality it just protects the cartel of the biggest clubs with the biggest incomes, because they have bigger stadiums and more fans worldwide, therefore bigger incomes - and all of the current FFP rules are based around a club's income. It's not really 'fair play' if they can spend more than smaller clubs just because their stadium holds 20,000 more people and they have huge commercial deals - and small clubs are locked out of it, even with a super rich ambitious owner.
It's a complicated topic. But I'm more and more inclined to think, give everyone 150m every summer, a wage bill of up to 200m a season or whatever, and let them spend it how they want. Then let's see who's good.
Any profit, the Glazers can keep.
It does sound a bit like socialism and a move to the American salary cap model, but it would completely level the playing field and mean any well run, well managed club would be able to compete. Wages would plateau, clubs would have to be so much smarter with the contracts they hand out.
Totally get the point that a big problem is that this isn't enforceable worldwide, but I think if you're a player and you want to play in the best league in the world, you suck it up and survive on 100k a week. If you want to earn 350k a week playing in front of 689 fans in a desert backwater, go for it.