New plans for Captain Cook Square.

[DCI_Gene_Hunt]

People moan about nothing happening in Middlehaven, then they moan about Boho.
People deride our ability as a town to keep hold of our graduates, then they moan about Boho.
I've already said that they keep building more Boho because it keeps filling up. How much detail do you want?

The one thing that is really holding this area back is the total lack of imagination and ambition displayed by large numbers of its population.
I recently took a month off social media and I returned to discover that this site has turned into Gazette Comments.

Yes you said they build more because it keeps filling up - that's not what I asked

I'm not moaning about Boho (not moaning about anything, offering a point of view you might not agree with doesn't make it a moan) - I asked a simple question that I don't know the answer to about the numbers of jobs. If you don't know just say so or don't bother replying.

 

[BlindBoyGrunt]

Everyone agreeing with your point of view isn't a debate....

I didn't say it was, but everyone just being negative and moaning about everything isn't a debate ether.

 

[BlindBoyGrunt]

Yes you said they build more because it keeps filling up - that's not what I asked

I'm not moaning about Boho (not moaning about anything, offering a point of view you might not agree with doesn't make it a moan) - I asked a simple question that I don't know the answer to about the numbers of jobs. If you don't know just say so or don't bother replying.

Well you made two points in succession. One about our failure to hold on to our graduates and one asking how many people worked in Boho. If the two are not connected then I apologise, but if you were not making a connection why, in a conversation about CC Square and the relocation of the art college, did you throw in a random question about Boho that nobody on here is likely to have the answer to?

 

[DCI_Gene_Hunt]

Well you made two points in succession. One about our failure to hold on to our graduates and one asking how many people worked in Boho. If the two are not connected then I apologise, but if you were not making a connection why, in a conversation about CC Square and the relocation of the art college, did you throw in a random question about Boho that nobody on here is likely to have the answer to?

The points are not not meant to be connected & I asked because Rob (who might have known the answer about jobs) brought BOHO into the discussion and it was something I was intrigued to know.

The thread has deviated from the original post but its all inter connected and that's the way of the FMTTM board, threads go off topic and deviate, just like any conversation in the real world might.

 

[BlindBoyGrunt]

The points are not not meant to be connected & I asked because Rob (who might have known the answer about jobs) brought BOHO into the discussion and it was something I was intrigued to know.

The thread has deviated from the original post but its all inter connected and that's the way of the FMTTM board, threads go off topic and deviate, just like any conversation in the real world might.

Ok but read your replies to Rob when he introduced Boho and then reread all of your other points in this discussion. See all the negativity that you have introduced and you will understand why I feel you were being critical of Boho.

 

[DCI_Gene_Hunt]

Ok but read your replies to Rob when he introduced Boho and then reread all of your other points in this discussion. See all the negativity that you have introduced and you will understand why I feel you were being critical of Boho.

I'm allowed to make my points. If they are negative then so be it I'm allowed to express my point of view.

I'm not going to say things are fine & dandy when in my view they're not.

 

[BlindBoyGrunt]

I'm allowed to make my points. If they are negative then so be it I'm allowed to express my point of view.

I'm not going to say things are fine & dandy when in my view they're not.

So what would you do about the out of date art college?

 

[HarryVegas]

This probably won't help the debate above, but while certainly not commenting on anything DCIGH has said here, I understand BBG's viewpoint in general. One thing I've always recognised in our town is its overriding pessimism, the "everything's s**t and it always will be" type attitude. It's unfortunate, because it does hold us back. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Again, that's not directed at either poster above, DCI I know you do loads of good work on the music scene.

 

[DCI_Gene_Hunt]

So what would you do about the out of date art college?

Who says it is out of date?

It might not be all singing all dancing but who's to say it cannot run along side a new future proof collage?

What I wouldn't do is demolish it just to build new houses in an area that is already gridlocked with far more cars than the roads can manage, that has plenty of new build houses already built and more to be built locally. Where there aren't enough schools/doctors/bus routes etc to support even more new houses on an already ridiculously busy road junction.

I would give local people an opportunity to have a say in what happened to the building/site if it wasn't to be used but that isn't an option as hidden away on page 68 of the 160 page Middlesbrough Local Plan are all the details of new houses to be built - its a relatively small site that could easily be used as some much needed Green space but that isn't the Council policy. Build more houses where ever possible is all that matters.

Sorry if that's too negative for you.

 

[DCI_Gene_Hunt]

This probably won't help the debate above, but while certainly not commenting on anything DCIGH has said here, I understand BBG's viewpoint in general. One thing I've always recognised in our town is its overriding pessimism, the "everything's s**t and it always will be" type attitude. It's unfortunate, because it does hold us back. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Again, that's not directed at either poster above, DCI I know you do loads of good work on the music scene.

Fair comment and I know what you mean but I would argue that the opposite view also exists where by some people live their lives wearing rose tinted glasses and can see no wrong in anything that our leaders agree to do.

 

[HarryVegas]

Fair comment and I know what you mean but I would argue that the opposite view also exists where by some people live their lives wearing rose tinted glasses and can see no wrong in anything that our leaders agree to do.

I agree. I'm appalled that we keep voting for the same corrupt, inept, amoral bunch of a**eholes imaginable.

 

[DCI_Gene_Hunt]

Going off topic a bit but there was a council meeting the other day to approve (or not) the building of 115 new houses on the old St David's school adjacent to the Avenue Of Trees.

10 councillors were to vote on this but one abstained.

Now there might be a logical reason for this (and if anyone knows please put me straight) but why would any councillor tasked with deciding planning matters abstain - He/She might as well not be there.

 

[BlindBoyGrunt]

Who says it is out of date?

From the Evening Gazette 2019.

"A 50-page report for next week’s meeting tells how the existing 1960s Linthorpe campus had “reached the end of its economic life” and “wasn’t suitable for teaching” in the 21st century."

"The council’s pay and display car park off Newport Road was sold by Middlesbrough Council for £315,000 in June to make way for a “flagship” development."

"The report added: “Ultimately, we should be the Tees Valley’s second university.”"

"Student numbers at the campus are expected to rise from about 500 to 730 by September 2027."

So the cost of the site was less than what two houses will cost on the Green Lane site I would think.

​

 

[HarryVegas]

Going off topic a bit but there was a council meeting the other day to approve (or not) the building of 115 new houses on the old St David's school adjacent to the Avenue Of Trees.

10 councillors were to vote on this but one abstained.

Now there might be a logical reason for this (and if anyone knows please put me straight) but why would any councillor tasked with deciding planning matters abstain - He/She might as well not be there.

I know from experience up here that councillors are often powerless to oppose. We had a bit of a tussle a couple of years ago over library cutbacks and Labour councillors, even though personally opposed to the cutbacks, couldn't vote against them so one or two abstained. If they'd voted against, they could have been deselected by their own party.

 

[Randy]

People moan about nothing happening in Middlehaven, then they moan about Boho.
People deride our ability as a town to keep hold of our graduates, then they moan about Boho.
I've already said that they keep building more Boho because it keeps filling up. How much detail do you want?

The one thing that is really holding this area back is the total lack of imagination and ambition displayed by large numbers of its population.
I recently took a month off social media and I returned to discover that this site has turned into Gazette Comments.

NIMBY's Billy. It's as simple as that.

 

[DCI_Gene_Hunt]

NIMBY's Billy. It's as simple as that.

No Randy you are very wrong. You clearly don't know the locale.

In a very small area there have been numerous new builds in recent times and many more to come that have already been granted planning permission all without addressing any of the issues I have commented on.

Infrastructure issues, like roads, schools, parking etc. The area reached saturation point many new housing estates ago.

 

[Randy]

I'm talking about Middlesbrough as a whole.

As others have mentioned as soon as something is planned (which granted doesn't come to fruition often) is announced its instantly put down as a waste of money etc etc.

The traffic issues Middlesbrough have, have been around for decades and will continue to be an issue for decades to come. I agree with you that housing should be put on the back burner for a while, road systems need upgrading, the mythical park and ride scheme needs to be a priority.

The more education opportunities in the area is a fantastic thing though. Yes the ultimate aim needs to be to keep the graduates in the area and that is a very difficult mission to complete.

I think Middlesbrough as a whole is trying to shake off that old industrial tag and wear a nice new digital tag.

There is a lot of potential in Middlesbrough, it just needs the right people in charge from the right backgrounds who are doing it for Middlesbrough and not for a chapter in their memoirs.

No Randy you are very wrong. You clearly don't know the locale.

In a very small area there have been numerous new builds in recent times and many more to come that have already been granted planning permission all without addressing any of the issues I have commented on.

Infrastructure issues, like roads, schools, parking etc. The area reached saturation point many new housing estates ago.

 

[DCI_Gene_Hunt]

From the Evening Gazette 2019.

"A 50-page report for next week’s meeting tells how the existing 1960s Linthorpe campus had “reached the end of its economic life” and “wasn’t suitable for teaching” in the 21st century."

"The council’s pay and display car park off Newport Road was sold by Middlesbrough Council for £315,000 in June to make way for a “flagship” development."

"The report added: “Ultimately, we should be the Tees Valley’s second university.”"

"Student numbers at the campus are expected to rise from about 500 to 730 by September 2027."

So the cost of the site was less than what two houses will cost on the Green Lane site I would think.

​

So the council raked in £315,000 for the car park and what ever amount for the sale of the existing college land. (I'm presuming they own the land)

The new build is budgeted to cost £14.5 million

 

[BlindBoyGrunt]

No Randy you are very wrong. You clearly don't know the locale.

In a very small area there have been numerous new builds in recent times and many more to come that have already been granted planning permission all without addressing any of the issues I have commented on.

Infrastructure issues, like roads, schools, parking etc. The area reached saturation point many new housing estates ago.

There are many, many more densely populated places in this country than Linthorpe and most of them manage ok. What we need to concentrate on is infrastructure, public transport and improved cycle routes. Many of the private vehicles belong to people who live on the southern outskirts and drive into town on Marton Road and Acklam Road, and people driving their children to school. I drive all day every day and Acklam Road is a nightmare in the mornings but when the schools are on holiday it's a totally different experience.

I live in Linthorpe and most of the time the roads can cope easily and there is very little congestion, even after all those new houses were built on the Kirby field site.

 

[DCI_Gene_Hunt]

I'm talking about Middlesbrough as a whole.

As others have mentioned as soon as something is planned (which granted doesn't come to fruition often) is announced its instantly put down as a waste of money etc etc.

The traffic issues Middlesbrough have, have been around for decades and will continue to be an issue for decades to come. I agree with you that housing should be put on the back burner for a while, road systems need upgrading, the mythical park and ride scheme needs to be a priority.

The more education opportunities in the area is a fantastic thing though. Yes the ultimate aim needs to be to keep the graduates in the area and that is a very difficult mission to complete.

I think Middlesbrough as a whole is trying to shake off that old industrial tag and wear a nice new digital tag.

There is a lot of potential in Middlesbrough, it just needs the right people in charge from the right backgrounds who are doing it for Middlesbrough and not for a chapter in their memoirs.

Fair enough but it looked like you were aiming the nimby quote at me.

Traffic in Middlesbrough is an issue.

The roads are a disgrace that no one seems to want to address

The volume of cars on the roads far exceeds existing capacity and the road traffic management systems cannot cope with the volume of cars causing major backlogs at peak times.

Its only going to get worse.