Millwall fans booing players taking the knee

Michael I think that uwe is saying but trying to understand, not legitimise, you take a step towards eradicating the behaviour. Not dismissing or underplaying your experiences, of course. It's perfectly understandable that you have a very fixed point of view. It's easy to pontificate when you've never been a victim. Much more difficult when loved ones are being abused.

Yes, I take that but I think that you can try to educate for decades until you are blue in the face. With some people it's endemic. They thrive on it, are quite proud of it and sporting arenas are great places to make a show of force. I'm sick of trying to understand and educate quite honestly and these people simply have to be called out. It's wrong, it's unacceptable on any level. More condemnation and action, less pontificating.
 
And this is the important thing they are not wanting to send white people to concentration camps, though Lord knows they would have good reason to
No, they wouldn't. Not at all.
There is no good reason to send ANYBODY to a concentration camp.
 
Yes, I take that but I think that you can try to educate for decades until you are blue in the face. With some people it's endemic. They thrive on it, are quite proud of it and sporting arenas are great places to make a show of force. I'm sick of trying to understand and educate quite honestly and these people simply have to be called out. It's wrong, it's unacceptable on any level. More condemnation and action, less pontificating.
Is the action bit that's difficult to sort. As a country we do seem to be moving in the right direction over time. There has definitely been an increase of late of racist and hate crimes but still things are getting better. Getting shot of a racist government would be a good starting point.

In any event neither you nor your wife and children nor anyone else should suffer abuse because of where you or your loved ones happen to be born. On that we should all agree.
 
Is the action bit that's difficult to sort. As a country we do seem to be moving in the right direction over time. There has definitely been an increase of late of racist and hate crimes but still things are getting better. Getting shot of a racist government would be a good starting point.

In any event neither you nor your wife and children nor anyone else should suffer abuse because of where you or your loved ones happen to be born. On that we should all agree.

We're doing better in many respects but definitely Brexit seems to have enabled some to think it's okay to revert to stereotypes. My wife (when I wasn't with her!!) was told to 'go back to her country and get a job'. She's a gynaecologist for crying out loud and she makes it her business to try and look after the very people who have an issue with her!

It's heartening to see the vast majority of people on this thread speaking out but it saddens me that there are still some people who still think racism is in any way acceptable. These people have NO idea how hard it is.
 
We're doing better in many respects but definitely Brexit seems to have enabled some to think it's okay to revert to stereotypes. My wife (when I wasn't with her!!) was told to 'go back to her country and get a job'. She's a gynaecologist for crying out loud and she makes it her business to try and look after the very people who have an issue with her!

It's heartening to see the vast majority of people on this thread speaking out but it saddens me that there are still some people who still think racism is in any way acceptable. These people have NO idea how hard it is.

Who on here thinks its acceptable?

I am really sorry to hear about your experience, it is absolutely sickening and I am in no way condoning behaviour like that.
 
Yes, I take that but I think that you can try to educate for decades until you are blue in the face. With some people it's endemic. They thrive on it, are quite proud of it and sporting arenas are great places to make a show of force. I'm sick of trying to understand and educate quite honestly and these people simply have to be called out. It's wrong, it's unacceptable on any level. More condemnation and action, less pontificating.

Thats your choice and perfectly understandable but don't condemn people who want to change the world in a different way.
 
And this is indeed part of the problem. Firstly "defund the police" is largely a goal of the American BLM Movement (which remember is where it originated and where the problems are more obvious than here) the intention is not to "abolish" the police which is the way it seems to be interpreted, but to reduce some of the spend allocated to the police and to spend that money rather than on (often) militaristic methods of oppression and suppression but to spend the money on projects to reduce inequality of opportunity.

I don't listen to Talksport so whatever Simon Jordan is I don't know. Many pressure groups are "political" with a small "p", whether it is the Women's Institute campaigning for better bus services or the BLM movement arguing for equality. And this is the important thing they are not wanting to send white people to concentration camps, though Lord knows they would have good reason to, they just want equality. So let's not have the polticical excuse. Anyway since when did football fans get worked up about creeping Marxism. Mind calling BLM in any way "Marxist" is pitifully ludicrous and shows how led by the right wing media they are.

One thing I hear quite a lot from this "demographic" (of which, I should stress, I am a part as a 60+ balding white man) is they are tired of having xxxx "rammed down their throats" this applies not only to racial equality but also gender equality, LGBT+ issues etc., etc. anyone who sympathises with the plight of these minorities is "woke" or a "Social Justice Warrior" as if those things are in some way bad? It seems to me that they are raging against the dying of the light, this isn't their world any more, it never really was, I feel sorry for them mostly as they are just confused angry people. They seem to share common ground on Brexit and Trump and their profiles on Twitter are defined by multiple Union Flags and St. George crosses where they endlessly confirm each other's bias.

I'm not sure what difference there is between being "racist" and "explicitly racist" is, but booing players taking the knee is a racist act. Also by doing so they have validated the need to continue to do so. Whereas we as led by Britt had decided it was just a gesture (and I thought he was right) when white people stand up and boo players of their own team for protesting at inequality it validates the protest. It isn't pointless they have just demonstrated why it is important to do it. That it annoys them is important.

And it has, we're on here talking about it. What I think needs to be done is to send a simple message back "no that is not acceptable". I was horrified that Millwall and QPR would not "take the knee" tonight. But it sounds like they will. Perhaps the Millwall fans showing a proper respect of the protest will be the best possible outcome, and we can move on. Will they?

Let's see...

This is a good post and I'll try to respond to each point later when I have time to type!
 
We're doing better in many respects but definitely Brexit seems to have enabled some to think it's okay to revert to stereotypes. My wife (when I wasn't with her!!) was told to 'go back to her country and get a job'. She's a gynaecologist for crying out loud and she makes it her business to try and look after the very people who have an issue with her!

It's heartening to see the vast majority of people on this thread speaking out but it saddens me that there are still some people who still think racism is in any way acceptable. These people have NO idea how hard it is.

I just feel for you and your wife - just awful

It is a tricky one but, I just wonder, in the long run, if it is better 'out than in'. If you get what I mean.
Brexit has undoubtedly given people the balls to make their racism known. I suppose we can deal with it if it is out in the open.
Easy for me, as an auld white privileged gadgie to say tho.
When I see some of the stuff non whites have to put up with it breaks my heart.

What do you think?
 
I quoted "EXACTLY" what you posted, that's the point.

I said "they are not wanting to send white people to concentration camps..."

What is the point you are making? I genuinely don't understand what you are trying to point out :confused:
 
I just feel for you and your wife - just awful

It is a tricky one but, I just wonder, in the long run, if it is better 'out than in'. If you get what I mean.
Brexit has undoubtedly given people the balls to make their racism known. I suppose we can deal with it if it is out in the open.
Easy for me, as an auld white privileged gadgie to say tho.
When I see some of the stuff non whites have to put up with it breaks my heart.

What do you think?

It is tricky but it really shouldn't be and I'm at the stage now where 'talking about it', 'understanding it' and looking for solutions just make me roll my eyes. Someone posted a video yesterday of a young lad, about five, being encouraged to sing a racist song! That kid, from an early age, has been indoctrinated to think of someone else as inferior to him! Of course he may well move away and wake up to the wonders of the world and be ashamed of how was he taught.

I just feel that no matter what we do, what we try, there will always be a brick wall sadly. We ARE getting better and that should be applauded, but to see it raise its ugly head again post Brexit just dismays me.

We've had enough and are planning on moving back to Asia. We're not happy here and that's a shame, but you do what you must. I guess the racists have won if we're driven away, but one can only take so much.
 
In this context, yes. To argue otherwise would be to suggest that the entire crowd was unaware of BLM and what it stands for (unlikely) and just happened to boo in unison by coincidence.

No you are assuming that everyone was booing because they are against an anti-racism demonstration.
 
It is tricky but it really shouldn't be and I'm at the stage now where 'talking about it', 'understanding it' and looking for solutions just make me roll my eyes. Someone posted a video yesterday of a young lad, about five, being encouraged to sing a racist song! That kid, from an early age, has been indoctrinated to think of someone else as inferior to him! Of course he may well move away and wake up to the wonders of the world and be ashamed of how was he taught.

I just feel that no matter what we do, what we try, there will always be a brick wall sadly. We ARE getting better and that should be applauded, but to see it raise its ugly head again post Brexit just dismays me.

We've had enough and are planning on moving back to Asia. We're not happy here and that's a shame, but you do what you must. I guess the racists have won if we're driven away, but one can only take so much.

Aww man - that's just a great response. Makes me quite emotional rjust eading it.
Best wishes to you and your good lady
 
We've had enough and are planning on moving back to Asia. We're not happy here and that's a shame, but you do what you must. I guess the racists have won if we're driven away, but one can only take so much.
So sorry to hear this. It is absolutely indisputably true that we are a more racist country than at any time since probably the 1970s and I blame the politicians who have created and ridden to power on this surge in "nationalism" Farage and all the other Little Hitlers, the spinelessness of Cameron, the vindictiveness of May and the incompetence and self centred opportunism of Johnson.

I remember watching the opening ceremony of the 2012 Olympic Games with a glow of pride. I'm ashamed of my country and what we have become.
 
So sorry to hear this. It is absolutely indisputably true that we are a more racist country than at any time since probably the 1970s and I blame the politicians who have created and ridden to power on this surge in "nationalism" Farage and all the other Little Hitlers, the spinelessness of Cameron, the vindictiveness of May and the incompetence and self centred opportunism of Johnson.

I remember watching the opening ceremony of the 2012 Olympic Games with a glow of pride. I'm ashamed of my country and what we have become.

Yes, very much. 2012 honestly seemed like we were onto something. We all loved Mo didn't we. I've 'got rid' of so many 'friends' in recent years for their beliefs... there casual stereotyping and their astonishing belief that 'these people come over here, take our benefits and live like kings'!

I was having a hair cut recently and the conversation moved onto lockdown and the hairdresser told me that Blackburn and Leicester were in lockdown because dozens of Pakistanis live together in tiny houses and have little personal hygiene! Exasperating!
 
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