Mandatory Jabs for NHS workers

[BoroMart]

@BoroMart my heavily pregnant wife who is 5 weeks away from giving birth was offered the booster jab last week and declined. Should she be sent to plague island wherever that is?

booster jab.....so she's already had the vaccine, and I assume will, after birth have the booster. Your point is moot

 

[Laughing]

you weren't defending the profession, you were attacking me

We're already on plague island fella, the stats prove it and until people start taking their social responsibility seriously it stays that way

..and I stand by the fact that you are throwing personal insults around which doesn't do any view you may have any good whatsoever, it diminishes your view, your credibility and peoples opinion of your intellect

You suggested I was a selfish libertarian. Touche.

 

[Tom_Boro]

Shortage of workers in the NHS and now have the jab or lose your job.
Great idea.

If you work for the NHS and are not willing to get the vaccine then you deserve to lose your job.

 

[Laughing]

I actually think numbers of those ‘refusing’ is a lot less than you think… most of those unvaccinated are probably exempt and many won’t be front line…
I actually think it’s a bad idea to force people and I suspect the govt have crunched figures and realised it won’t be a catastrophe and are merely using this as some sort of ‘look at us get tough’ policy whilst also getting the public to deflect attention to those pesky unvaccinated health workers who are demanding more money…

I linked to the vaccination figures for front line staff if you want to look at them.

I agree that a fair number will be exempt, and I have no idea what that percentage would be. I do know that the exemptions are few and far between.

 

[TeaCider]

We might be interpreting the same thing differently. It specifically uses the word limited in reducing transmission.

During the period when individuals are actively infected and equally symptomatic.

Vaccinated individuals are less likely to get infected, they're infected for a shorter period.

It reduces transmission by reducing the chance of having, and the time period in which you have the transmissable virus.

Vaccinated individuals are also less likely to be symptomatic.
Asymptomatic people have a lower transmission rate.

 

[Laughing]

If you work for the NHS and are not willing to get the vaccine then you deserve to lose your job.

That isn't the point of the thread. I don't agree with you, but let's assume we go down this route. We will loose over 10% of frontline NHS staff. You think that's a good idea?

 

[BoroMart]

You suggested I was a selfish libertarian. Touche.

I didn't suggest YOU were, I suggested the people that are refusing to get the jab (when they have no medical reason not to). I've already explained this, so stop 'touche-ing' yourself to death

 

[Laughing]

During the period when individuals are actively infected and equally symptomatic.

Vaccinated individuals are less likely to get infected, they're infected for a shorter period, they're also less likely to be symptomatic.

It reduces transmission by reducing the chance of and time period in which you have the transmissable virus.

Yes that is correct. It wanes over time. 3 Months after the jab, protection against infection and transmission it begins to tend to zero. Vaccinations are limited in stopping the transmission of the virus and become more limited over time.

 

[Laughing]

I didn't suggest YOU were, I suggested the people that are refusing to get the jab (when they have no medical reason not to). I've already explained this, so stop 'touching' yourself to death

That was quite good, made me smile. I disagree with you vociferously, I find the attitude of banishing NHS workers, who saved lives, at the cost of their own, selfish and stupid.

That better?

 

[Randy]

booster jab.....so she's already had the vaccine, and I assume will, after birth have the booster. Your point is moot

Is it moot? Someone mentioned on the board that the phizer jab was the best out of the lot. I've had two shots of that and so has she so why would we need a booster? Especially when the two antibody tests we took over the weekend both showed a strong antibody result? (£35 a test by the way)
Will the booster vaccine be free for the rest of our existence or will we eventually have to pay for it and how much?

Again, because she hasn't had the booster jab and won't be having it should she be sent to plague island?

Edit - and for NHS reference her health worker suggested we get an antibody test at our last meeting. Not sure if other NHS trusts around the country are recommending antibody tests for pregnant women.

 

[TeaCider]

Yes that is correct. It wanes over time. 3 Months after the jab, protection against infection and transmission it begins to tend to zero. Vaccinations are limited in stopping the transmission of the virus and become more limited over time.

Obviously it wanes over time, which is why we have boosters.

Stop being obtuse.

That is not an argument for NHS staff to not get vaccinated, it's an argument for them to be vaccinated repeatedly.

 

[BoroMart]

That was quite good, made me smile. I disagree with you vociferously, I find the attitude of banishing NHS workers, who saved lives, at the cost of their own, selfish and stupid.

That better?

yes, less personal.

I am being slightly facetious in my 'send them to plague island comments', but my attitude is that if you want to take from our society, you should be fully prepared to do your bit and protect it. In WW2 in France their were people who were prepared to risk their lives and take up arms to protect their country, resistance. There were also people who helped the germans and had an "I'm alright Jacques" attitude, undermining the resistance by grassing them up.

I view the Libertarian attitude of I'll refuse to get the vaccine because it's my body, as the same as those collaborators, failing to protect the country, in fact ensuring that there is a continued negative effect on the country.

 

[1finny]

What we know
* Unvaxxed and vaxed can get and transmit covid
* Vaxed have less likelihood of serious illness/death
* Governments are mandating vax for certain jobs and for certain freedoms
* It’s not really for us on message boards to find the reasons for Government actions

What would be good.
* When governments make these decisions they provide ‘compelling’ evidence of their reasons..

It‘s not really a lot to ask.
Sadly, few, if any ask and there is no transparency.

It works, of course, because it keeps the public fractious as evidenced on here and in communities around the world.

 

[r00fie1]

May I interject.

If we are talking about one public entity - the NHS - should we not demand that all workers in all private and public organisations - be vaccinated or lose their jobs?

COVID is out in the street and those who attend hospitals represent a % of those carrying and infecting people. It starts outside the NHS.
Using NHS staff - singling them out - is a blunt instrument and in isolation - not an answer to combating viral infection.

Shouldnt the Government demand that all workers should be vaxinated - including Library staff / Retail Workers / Teachers / Petrol Station assistants / Workers in Aldi - Tesco - Asda - Morrisons - Coop (etc) / Banks / Estate agents / Factory Workers [Food / Walkers Crisps, etc]/ ????

Or does that mean wearing masks be made compulsory - including the flippin idiot of a Prime - Minister.

 

[Andy_W]

Strawman... OK. Your point was based on assumptions, that were wrong. Move on.

You don't even have a point, you just talk in hypothetical and strawman arguments against others, without offering any insight to what you think will happen.

My point is based on 95% of north east healthcare workers choosing to be vaccinated (to date) which they have, that's my base, and you've offered zero to counter that.
My point is "more patient facing nurses and doctors" will get vaxxed than "healtchare workers", and you've offered zero to counter that.
My point is some of those unvaccinated nurses will have bene off sick, pregnant or had other reasonable health reasons, and hence will not be "fired", you've offered zero to counter this.
My point is, they're not faced with "the sack", they will likely get moved to non patient facing roles, which you've not countered.
My point is, of those remaining few left, far more will just choose to have the vaccine, rather than give up on nursing, which you've not countered.
My point is, any new nurses will have to accept to be vaccinated before they even get their foot in the door.

lets sack only over 50's from the medical profession, because that would help.

Do you think that's going to happen? My bet is <1% of over 50's nurses (call that 0.5% of all nurses) get "sacked".

What's your number? Lets see who is closest in April?

 

[exeterboro]

I am sure that the NHS has a lot of staff currently isolating or off sick with Covid, would that be the case if everyone that could, did have the jab.

I work in social care, having the jab hasn't affected the people who have to isolate after having positive tests they are still quite high..
I don't agree with mandatory jabbing some very good and experienced people have left the service due to not having jabs, and actually you can't replace them after 4 months, that is just production line thinking. I have had the jab, AZ in February and 2nd in April, most of my colleagues were quite badly affected by the 1st jab, this was before the press and hence the Gov were admitting that the AZ could give severe side effects after the 1st jab, so in my workplace there is a bit of distrust towards any publicity/ propaganda that is coming out.A few won't have the booster, they are quite anxious about the side effects.
I have had it, I went to a walk in centre in Plymouth on Sunday and had the Moderna which apart from a place in Bristol was the only place I knew of in the South West doing Moderna, but I could have quite easily not had it such is my attitude now to the pressure around the jabs to have them, there is a lot of unnecessary hectoring of people to have it.

 

[r00fie1]

I work in social care, having the jab hasn't affected the people who have to isolate after having positive tests they are still quite high..
I don't agree with mandatory jabbing some very good and experienced people have left the service due to not having jabs, and actually you can't replace them after 4 months, that is just production line thinking. I have had the jab, AZ in February and 2nd in April, most of my colleagues were quite badly affected by the 1st jab, this was before the press and hence the Gov were admitting that the AZ could give severe side effects after the 1st jab, so in my workplace there is a bit of distrust towards any publicity/ propaganda that is coming out.A few won't have the booster, they are quite anxious about the side effects.
I have had it, I went to a walk in centre in Plymouth on Sunday and had the Moderna which apart from a place in Bristol was the only place I knew of in the South West doing Moderna, but I could have quite easily not had it such is my attitude now to the pressure around the jabs to have them, there is a lot of unnecessary hectoring of people to have it.

I can add to that Exeter:

At the moment Im working in the community with clients with complex physiological . psychological and social needs.

The service policy is: that all staff need to take a Lateral Flow Test the day before they attend work - record it on the Gov.UK online and send a shot of the result to the unit Manager.

As a matter of course - all Staff Members are required to wear appropriate PPE.

There are over 21 people engaged with clients at any time 24/7 + MDT Members and support services.

Clients participate in potentially high risk behaviours on a daily basis, which expose them to infection [amongst many other negative impacts].

Some clients refuse to be vaxinated.

Vaxination does not prevent Staff from carrying the virus.

We have to take risk-assessed precautions to protect ourselves and the clients.

A number of my colleagues are medically exempt from taking the "jab".

We work face - to - face with our clients - in Unit as well as in the community.

Do we sack them?

Or do we tell very vulnerable clients we cant work with them?*

* Definitely those who are not vaxinated?!

 

[Andy_W]

May I interject.

If we are talking about one public entity - the NHS - should we not demand that all workers in all private and public organisations - be vaccinated or lose their jobs?

COVID is out in the street and those who attend hospitals represent a % of those carrying and infecting people. It starts outside the NHS.
Using NHS staff - singling them out - is a blunt instrument and in isolation - not an answer to combating viral infection.

Shouldnt the Government demand that all workers should be vaxinated - including Library staff / Retail Workers / Teachers / Petrol Station assistants / Workers in Aldi - Tesco - Asda - Morrisons - Coop (etc) / Banks / Estate agents / Factory Workers [Food / Walkers Crisps, etc]/ ????

Or does that mean wearing masks be made compulsory - including the flippin idiot of a Prime - Minister.

It's different risk benefit I suppose, I would be all for mandatory vaccination for the public (for those without good medical reasons), but I would be willing to go further than most to protect public health.

For nurses I suppose it's par for the course to do all you can to protect the patients, something which they're immensely proud of. Same like with the forces, you have to go and bomb people, whether you like it or not, it's kind of expected.

 

[Tom_Boro]

That isn't the point of the thread. I don't agree with you, but let's assume we go down this route. We will loose over 10% of frontline NHS staff. You think that's a good idea?

Laughing I probably over reacted when reading the first post. There are many reasons won't take the vaccine but for purely anti vaxxers within the NHS I would get rid personally.

 

[r00fie1]

It's different risk benefit I suppose, I would be all for mandatory vaccination for the public (for those without good medical reasons), but I would be willing to go further than most to protect public health.

For nurses I suppose it's par for the course to do all you can to protect the patients, something which they're immensely proud of. Same like with the forces, you have to go and bomb people, whether you like it or not, it's kind of expected.

This reply concerns your opinion Andy - its not intended to be personal.

You may see my later post about the particular policies surrounded my current work for the NHS in the community.
The NHS is not just Hospitals.
Its more complicated than that.

As for the Armed Forces - there is no comparison.
They dont "have to go and bomb people" - war and peacekeeping is not throwing other peoples chilfden on a funeral pyre - in uniform.
Its akin to telling Armed Forces they should expect to die.

I wouldnt suggest you say that to a Soldier, Sailor or Crab to their faces.

The Government is victim blaming to divert from its monstrous incompetent profit-ripping mismanagement of this whole pandemic.
That is the real cancer at the core of this fiasco.

At the moment our country is becoming the unique British version of the Gulag Archipelago for the many, for the benefit of the powerful few.
Its parallels with authoritarian regimes - within living memory - is frightening and must be resisted.