Male Boxers fighting Females in the Olympics

[Ravshoutsatbeck]

So just to summarise the information that is actually known.

There are two boxers that are taking part that have previously failed gender testing. Some have reported these were XY chromosomes, some are reporting testosterone levels outside of acceptable levels.

Both these women have were considered female at birth and have lived their whole lives as female.

Likely intersex or DSD, but absolutely nothing to do with the trans debate.

 

[Granville Bennett]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1818957878033621174

 

[Centralscrutinizer]

So just to summarise the information that is actually known.

There are two boxers that are taking part that have previously failed gender testing. Some have reported these were XY chromosomes, some are reporting testosterone levels outside of acceptable levels.

Both these women have were considered female at birth and have lived their whole lives as female.

Likely intersex or DSD, but absolutely nothing to do with the trans debate.

Are you sure about that

 

[El Guapo]

The difference in physique in that photo is noticeable

 

[SmallTown]

So just to summarise the information that is actually known.

There are two boxers that are taking part that have previously failed gender testing. Some have reported these were XY chromosomes, some are reporting testosterone levels outside of acceptable levels.

Both these women have were considered female at birth and have lived their whole lives as female.

Likely intersex or DSD, but absolutely nothing to do with the trans debate.

I think that's the issue with the OP and hellfire and people like that isn't it? There ARE debates to be had about trans people in sports. But these people don't really think beyond their own prejudices and can't differentiate between Intersex and DSD issues, Trans people and as hellfire hilariously showed the last time we had this debate, transvestites.

We need serious discussions about these issues in sport, not the usual bigots getting angry. It doesn't help

 

[king_hellfire]

I think that's the issue with the OP and hellfire and people like that isn't it? There ARE debates to be had about trans people in sports.

Don’t worry smalltown, I have my debate ready. I just don’t have the time to post it yet.

I can guarantee you won’t maturely debate the points I make, as proven in previous threads.

But these people don't really think beyond their own prejudices and can't differentiate between Intersex and DSD issues,

Intersex is another name for DSDs. They are not separate things, oh knowledgeable one.

‘Intersex’ is now referred to as DSD due to the misleading name (there are only two sexes, the are no ‘inter’ sexes) and the fact that people with DSDs find it insulting and derogatory.

Trans people and as hellfire hilariously showed the last time we had this debate, transvestites.

We need serious discussions about these issues in sport, not the usual bigots getting angry. It doesn't help

The only thing that was (horrifically) shown in the last debate was that you think it’s ok for pre-op adult genetic males to use the showers with females of ALL ages.

 

[Centralscrutinizer]

All you need to know about where we're at is here.

Paris 2024: Males Are About To Fight in Women's Boxing. How Did We Get Here? | The Real Science of Sport Podcast

Controversy in Paris as biological males compete in women's boxing and football. We explore the issues

shows.acast.com

Warning. Contains lots of useful information so might not be suitable for FMTTM

 

[king_hellfire]

Are you sure about that?

No, he’s not.

For a start ‘intersex’ is another name for DSD

 

[king_hellfire]

Trans people and as hellfire hilariously showed the last time we had this debate, transvestites.

There you go, being transphobic again.

The images I posted were of men saying they were female, therefore ‘transwomen’.

What made you think they were transvestites? Was it the fact that they were weird creepy old men? Was it the fact that they were wearing inappropriate clothing?

Do you think that all transwomen are friendly, non-violent people who ‘pass’ as women? Do you think there are no weird creepy old transwomen who wear inappropriate clothing?
If, so then that also makes you transphobic.


Tell me, what’s the difference between a ‘genuine’ transwoman and a transvestite who lies about being a woman?

 

[Ravshoutsatbeck]

No, he’s not.

For a start ‘intersex’ is another name for DSD

Different people use different terminology - some people may not know what DSD is and so I included both.

I am not sure about anything, but that is what I have stated. That there is currently rumor and supposition - it is recorded in what I have read that both of them have lived their whole life as female.

The question is what the IBA/IOC tests have found with regards to testosterone/chromosomes - which is disputed.

I think there is a debate to be had on inclusion of those with testosterone outside normal limits being involved in contact sports, but their needs to be significant sensitivity towards those with DSDs for whom it can be hugely distressing to find that society suddenly defines them differently to how they have been treated the rest of their lives.

 

[Centralscrutinizer]

Different people use different terminology - some people may not know what DSD is and so I included both.

I am not sure about anything, but that is what I have stated. That there is currently rumor and supposition - it is recorded in what I have read that both of them have lived their whole life as female.

The question is what the IBA/IOC tests have found with regards to testosterone/chromosomes - which is disputed.

I think there is a debate to be had on inclusion of those with testosterone outside normal limits being involved in contact sports, but their needs to be significant sensitivity towards those with DSDs for whom it can be hugely distressing to find that society suddenly defines them differently to how they have been treated the rest of their lives.

Listen to the podcast

 

[king_hellfire]

Different people use different terminology - some people may not know what DSD is and so I included both.

Nice try. You said ‘Likely intersex or DSD, but absolutely nothing to do with the trans debate.’

There is no intersex or DSD.

I am not sure about anything, but that is what I have stated. That there is currently rumor and supposition - it is recorded in what I have read that both of them have lived their whole life as female.

The question is what the IBA/IOC tests have found with regards to testosterone/chromosomes - which is disputed.

The IBA never tested for testosterone, so that argument is irrelevant. Although I have more to add to this later.

I think there is a debate to be had on inclusion of those with testosterone outside normal limits being involved in contact sports, but their needs to be significant sensitivity towards those with DSDs for whom it can be hugely distressing to find that society suddenly defines them differently to how they have been treated the rest of their lives.

Not to the extent that you let males box against females. And not even to the extent that you continue saying they are the opposite sex. Yes, it’s unfortunate but it’s what it is. They have to live with that fact.


I’ll address your other points later on.

 

[TheBoy999]

This thread is pretty good and well debated. Petty about the thread name which is massively simplistic on a subject which is super complex.

 

[Ravshoutsatbeck]

Nice try. You said ‘Likely intersex or DSD, but absolutely nothing to do with the trans debate.’


I’ll address your other points later on.

fair enough...

I'm medically trained but not an expert in DSD.

I've tried to find concrete reports from this case but there seems to be a lot of contradiction in reports.

Question... if you had a child, female as far as you knew, would you get chromosome/testosterone testing before allowing them to take part in sports or is there a specific point when chromosome analysis should be performed?

 

[Centralscrutinizer]

fair enough...

I'm medically trained but not an expert in DSD.

I've tried to find concrete reports from this case but there seems to be a lot of contradiction in reports.

Question... if you had a child, female as far as you knew, would you get chromosome/testosterone testing before allowing them to take part in sports or is there a specific point when chromosome analysis should be performed?

Listen to the podcast I posted

 

[SmallTown]

This thread is pretty good and well debated. Petty about the thread name which is massively simplistic on a subject which is super complex.

Yeah, I think for someo people it's easier to simplify, that way they can lump their prejudices into one

 

[DonTheKing]

So just to summarise the information that is actually known.

There are two boxers that are taking part that have previously failed gender testing. Some have reported these were XY chromosomes, some are reporting testosterone levels outside of acceptable levels.

Both these women have were considered female at birth and have lived their whole lives as female.

Likely intersex or DSD, but absolutely nothing to do with the trans debate.

**** off its simple as ****. They are men fighting women!!!! Shouldn't be allowed doesn't matter how you swing it.

 

[SmallTown]

**** off its simple as ****. They are men fighting women!!!! Shouldn't be allowed doesn't matter how you swing it.

QED

 

[Centralscrutinizer]

Good to see mature debate on here

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

Yeah, I think for someo people it's easier to simplify, that way they can lump their prejudices into one

Stop lowering the level of debate. There's relevant info coming from all sides of this argument, and it's very much at the debating stage globally, hence the differing views of sports organisations.