Luke Shaw

He would have been my second choice at the start of the tournament but he's had a couple of decent games now and looks to have cemented his place.
 
parmoboy said:
It's ironic to think we used to hype Ashley Cole up as being the best left-back in the world but I can't remember him having the same impact in a tournament game as Shaw had last night.
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in all honesty, you could pick almost any player from the “golden generation” and compare them to this one and it might ring true.

Rooney had one decent tournament when he was 18, never had any impact after that in the next 5 or so tournaments he played in. Was part of a team that didn’t even qualify for Euro 2008 and has one World Cup goal to his name. Kane has a World Cup golden boot, and now on 3 goals at the Euro’s, only 2 off leading scorer in the competition. If England play well against Denmark, he could arguably go level.

That previous generation may have underachieved, or possibly just overhyped. Probably somewhere in the middle .
 
HiredGun123 said:
in all honesty, you could pick almost any player from the “golden generation” and compare them to this one and it might ring true.

Rooney had one decent tournament when he was 18, never had any impact after that in the next 5 or so tournaments he played in. Was part of a team that didn’t even qualify for Euro 2008 and has one World Cup goal to his name. Kane has a World Cup golden boot, and now on 3 goals at the Euro’s, only 2 off leading scorer in the competition. If England play well against Denmark, he could arguably go level.

That previous generation may have underachieved, or possibly just overhyped. Probably somewhere in the middle .
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Rooney was never good enough at the top level. He was a small fish in a large pond on the world stage. These guys like Kane are proving they can score at finals, Rooney never could. He was too petulant, spitting his dummy out when things weren't going right. We now have discipline, class, quality, and players who are proven world beaters. Our team can now call themselves world class.
 
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Mountain Climber said:
Rooney was never good enough at the top level. He was a small fish in a large pond on the world stage. These guys like Kane are proving they can score at finals, Rooney never could. He was too petulant, spitting his dummy out when things weren't going right. We now have discipline, class, quality, and players who are proven world beaters. Our team can now call themselves world class.
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In fairness to Rooney he shouldn't have even gone to the World Cup in 06 as he wasn't fit. I seem to remember issues with his fitness in 2010 too.

The England team between 2004 - 2006 were unlucky not to reach at least a Semi Final (beaten both times on penalties by Portugal in the Quart Final).

Mind you, that England side often played within themselves, didn't get on with each other at times and tactical with too rigid (4-4-2 and nothing else).
 
Nero said:
In fairness to Rooney he shouldn't have even gone to the World Cup in 06 as he wasn't fit. I seem to remember issues with his fitness in 2010 too.

The England team between 2004 - 2006 were unlucky not to reach at least a Semi Final (beaten both times on penalties by Portugal in the Quart Final).

Mind you, that England side often played within themselves, didn't get on with each other at times and tactical with too rigid (4-4-2 and nothing else).
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yeah, but then playing within yourself on a big stage is what separates very good players from world class players, that goes for all sports.

I said on here the other day how I used to watch other countries play and envy the fact their players were just so comfortable and confident on that stage, then you would get past England sides playing hot potato with the ball.

people used to blame the media for the team playing within themselves, but other countries media arguably more brutal than ours with football, especially places like Brazil and Italy.

the term “world class” means very little anyway, everyone has their own parameters. All I know is the truly better players rise to the occasion and soak up whatever pressure is on them.

i mean this side has yet to win anything, but 2 semi finals in the last 2 major tournaments, knocking out Germany, winning a shootout etc.. at least things are going in the right direction and that’s down to better mentality and talent than anything we’ve had for a while. I don’t care if the “golden generation” had superstar marketable names. This side now would smoke them, both technically and mentally, in my opinion.
 
HiredGun123 said:
yeah, but then playing within yourself on a big stage is what separates very good players from world class players, that goes for all sports.

I said on here the other day how I used to watch other countries play and envy the fact their players were just so comfortable and confident on that stage, then you would get past England sides playing hot potato with the ball.

people used to blame the media for the team playing within themselves, but other countries media arguably more brutal than ours with football, especially places like Brazil and Italy.

the term “world class” means very little anyway, everyone has their own parameters. All I know is the truly better players rise to the occasion and soak up whatever pressure is on them.

i mean this side has yet to win anything, but 2 semi finals in the last 2 major tournaments, knocking out Germany, winning a shootout etc.. at least things are going in the right direction and that’s down to better mentality and talent than anything we’ve had for a while. I don’t care if the “golden generation” had superstar marketable names. This side now would smoke them, both technically and mentally, in my opinion.
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Agree with all of that.
 
HiredGun123 said:
yeah, but then playing within yourself on a big stage is what separates very good players from world class players, that goes for all sports.

I said on here the other day how I used to watch other countries play and envy the fact their players were just so comfortable and confident on that stage, then you would get past England sides playing hot potato with the ball.

people used to blame the media for the team playing within themselves, but other countries media arguably more brutal than ours with football, especially places like Brazil and Italy.

the term “world class” means very little anyway, everyone has their own parameters. All I know is the truly better players rise to the occasion and soak up whatever pressure is on them.

i mean this side has yet to win anything, but 2 semi finals in the last 2 major tournaments, knocking out Germany, winning a shootout etc.. at least things are going in the right direction and that’s down to better mentality and talent than anything we’ve had for a while. I don’t care if the “golden generation” had superstar marketable names. This side now would smoke them, both technically and mentally, in my opinion.
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Great post and completely spot on, and it all seems to come back to Gareth Southgate. The mentality that he has instilled in this very young group of players is incredible. They are consummately professional, humble and lack fear.
 
HiredGun123 said:
in all honesty, you could pick almost any player from the “golden generation” and compare them to this one and it might ring true.

Rooney had one decent tournament when he was 18, never had any impact after that in the next 5 or so tournaments he played in. Was part of a team that didn’t even qualify for Euro 2008 and has one World Cup goal to his name. Kane has a World Cup golden boot, and now on 3 goals at the Euro’s, only 2 off leading scorer in the competition. If England play well against Denmark, he could arguably go level.

That previous generation may have underachieved, or possibly just overhyped. Probably somewhere in the middle .
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I think the golden generation underachieved and I think mostly through poor management.
From 2002-2010 you could consistently pick an entire outfield team of Champions league winners, including a winner of the b'allon dor, a player who at 18 looked better than Ronaldo and Messi looked at 18, some of the best Centre backs and central midfielders in the world, but they never achieved nearly as much as this young team have already. I think much of that came down to poor management, mostly a lack of preparation. Just one example of that is the penalty shoot in the 2006 world cup against Portugal, when Carragher was selected by Eriksson to take one of the first 5 despite never taking a single penalty in his life. That would never happen now.
 
parmoboy said:
It's ironic to think we used to hype Ashley Cole up as being the best left-back in the world but I can't remember him having the same impact in a tournament game as Shaw had last night.
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Whilst there’s no doubting Shaw had a great game last night, 2 assists.

I’d actually consider 1 assist and having a hand in the other goal against Germany a better game than 2 assists against Ukraine.

But Ashley Cole’s game against Portugal in 2004 when iirc he literally won every single duel against Ronaldo was the best defensive performance that I can recall.
 
Heam44 said:
Whilst there’s no doubting Shaw had a great game last night, 2 assists.

I’d actually consider 1 assist and having a hand in the other goal against Germany a better game than 2 assists against Ukraine.

But Ashley Cole’s game against Portugal in 2004 when iirc he literally won every single duel against Ronaldo was the best defensive performance that I can recall.
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And he was exceptional at the World Cup in Germany too. Remember him saving our skin against Ecuador and others on more than one occasion.
 
A game of two half's etc..

In the first half I was thinking can somebody have a word with him and point out we are kicking the other way as 95%+ of the times the ball was played to him his only consideration was to play the ball backwards even when there was simpler, better options to look to play it forward. Very frustrating.

Second half, obviously a lot better... maybe somebody had a word...
 
The Card Cheat said:
I think the golden generation underachieved and I think mostly through poor management.
From 2002-2010 you could consistently pick an entire outfield team of Champions league winners, including a winner of the b'allon dor, a player who at 18 looked better than Ronaldo and Messi looked at 18, some of the best Centre backs and central midfielders in the world, but they never achieved nearly as much as this young team have already. I think much of that came down to poor management, mostly a lack of preparation. Just one example of that is the penalty shoot in the 2006 world cup against Portugal, when Carragher was selected by Eriksson to take one of the first 5 despite never taking a single penalty in his life. That would never happen now.
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Looking back now, Sven was a complete joke; picking players based on reputation and based on the club they played for.

Sven would never utilise his squad at a tournament in the way Southgate has. It was the same players picked over and over, regardless of form. That must have been incredibly frustrating for the fringe players and I bet there was a feeling of underlying resentment, which can't have led to harmony within the camp.

I think back to his decision making at the 2006 world cup, taking Rooney and Owen as his main strikers, despite them being unfit, and 17 year old Walcott. Then he played Owen in the third group game, despite the fact we had already qualified for the next round and he ended up crocked. Terrible management.

His treatment of Scholes was also infuriating. The team should have been built around him. Should have been a midfield of Hargreaves, Scholes and one of either Gerrard and Lampard.
 
He's been fantastic for a good year or so now. Without doubt one of Utd's best players and one of the best LB's in world football.

The amount of chances he creates is incredible.

Safe to say he's making Jose look a complete idiot with every passing game.
 
parmoboy said:
Looking back now, Sven was a complete joke; picking players based on reputation and based on the club they played for.

Sven would never utilise his squad at a tournament in the way Southgate has. It was the same players picked over and over, regardless of form. That must have been incredibly frustrating for the fringe players and I bet there was a feeling of underlying resentment, which can't have led to harmony within the camp.

I think back to his decision making at the 2006 world cup, taking Rooney and Owen as his main strikers, despite them being unfit, and 17 year old Walcott. Then he played Owen in the third group game, despite the fact we had already qualified for the next round and he ended up crocked. Terrible management.

His treatment of Scholes was also infuriating. The team should have been built around him. Should have been a midfield of Hargreaves, Scholes and one of either Gerrard and Lampard.
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But if you'd said that at the time the Card Cheat and other would have given you stick for being negative.
 
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