Lucy letby

Acklam_Lad said:
Ask yourself why this has not been picked up by the media in this country if it’s that much of miscarriage of justice
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You may well be right with the trial verdict but….
You can’t use that as a reason. The evidence is against you I’m afraid.

The Post Office injustice had only Private Eye and Computer Magazine for a friend for almost 15 years or more.

ITV had to run a documentary on it before the media decided to say they had been interested all the time.
 
Acklam_Lad said:
No doubt in my mind that she did it. She was the only one on shift for all of those deaths and attempts.

She was also the last person to interact with the babies before they died or took ill.

She was also witnessed interfering with the breathing tube on the case she was found guilty of yesterday.

The b!tch is pure evil and wants hanging

The New Yorker report is smoke and mirrors paid for by private health providers trying to discredit the NHS so they can push their agenda for this country to turn to private healthcare and do away with the NHS.

Ask yourself why this has not been picked up by the media in this country if it’s that much of miscarriage of justice
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And a sensationalist article comes along, completely skewed in it’s nature, trying to paint one particular picture only, missing key information, and all of a sudden people in the street think that’s the gospel and they can discount all the evidence and witness account and expert view submitted during one of the longest trials in UK history, insulting the jurors and all the professionals involved.
It’s depressing.
 
FabioPorkpie said:
And a sensationalist article comes along, completely skewed in it’s nature, trying to paint one particular picture only, missing key information, and all of a sudden people in the street think that’s the gospel and they can discount all the evidence and witness account and expert view submitted during one of the longest trials in UK history, insulting the jurors and all the professionals involved.
It’s depressing.
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On the contrary, the article included evidence that was excluded from the case.
 
www.thestudiesshowpod.com

Episode 41: Criminal justice and forensic science

Listen now | Stop! You violated the law! Pay the court a fine or serve your sentence.
www.thestudiesshowpod.com www.thestudiesshowpod.com

en.wikipedia.org

Lucia de Berk case - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

plus.maths.org

Beyond reasonable doubt

In 1999 solicitor Sally Clark was found guilty of murdering her two baby sons. Highly flawed statistical arguments may have been crucial in securing her conviction. As her second appeal approaches, Plus looks at the case and finds out how courts deal with statistics.
plus.maths.org plus.maths.org
 
1finny said:
You may well be right with the trial verdict but….
You can’t use that as a reason. The evidence is against you I’m afraid.

The Post Office injustice had only Private Eye and Computer Magazine for a friend for almost 15 years or more.

ITV had to run a documentary on it before the media decided to say they had been interested all the time.
Click to expand...

As you mention Private Eye - they said a couple of issues ago that MD has a column on the Letby case that the reporting restrictions prevented them from publishing before the conclusion of the second trial.

My first impression is perhaps it concurs with the New Yorker piece, but it could also be a deconstruction of it. I would expect it may now be published in the next issue next week.
 
1finny said:
You may well be right with the trial verdict but….
You can’t use that as a reason. The evidence is against you I’m afraid.

The Post Office injustice had only Private Eye and Computer Magazine for a friend for almost 15 years or more.

ITV had to run a documentary on it before the media decided to say they had been interested all the time.
Click to expand...
The evidence is against you I'm afraid, having been heard throughout one of the longest criminal trials in UK history and been found guilty by jury on many counts of murder and attempted murder.
 
Acklam_Lad said:
No doubt in my mind that she did it. She was the only one on shift for all of those deaths and attempts.

She was also the last person to interact with the babies before they died or took ill.

She was also witnessed interfering with the breathing tube on the case she was found guilty of yesterday.

The b!tch is pure evil and wants hanging

The New Yorker report is smoke and mirrors paid for by private health providers trying to discredit the NHS so they can push their agenda for this country to turn to private healthcare and do away with the NHS.

Ask yourself why this has not been picked up by the media in this country if it’s that much of miscarriage of justice
Click to expand...
With respect: she wasn't "on shift" for "all those deaths" and that's proven in evidence submitted in the shift logs and unit records. In addition, deaths in the unit were recorded prior to her engagement and after her departure from employment in that clinical area. Issues have been raised about the shortage of specialists, and premature transfer of newborn's to and from other hospitals, and the effect of unsanitary conditions and practices on child health. There were also reports of clinical practitioners being observed "Googling" how to insert NGT`s (!), which is totally unprofessional and symptomatic of lack of qualified Paediatricians and, unacceptable supervision and practice Management by senior staff.

There were issues identified where "cutting corners" in practice, lack of sufficient qualified clinical staff and poor supervision, definitely impacted in this case. There are other issues concerning the absence of clear mechanisms, whereby practice issues can be raised quickly and directly with Management. What does it say about the "culture" of the Paediatric Unit that staff felt unable or fearful to raise concerns about clinical practice?

There is a case for considering a claim of "Clinical Manslaughter", where those in Management of the Unit and responsible for implementation of practice and Trust Policy, need to be held accountable. Whether or not Letby is guilty, responsibility rests firmly on the shoulders of her Seniors and Unit Managers and the Trustees.

If correct policies and procedures were in place, Letby would not have been allowed so long to practice the way she did without apprehension or investigation.

It doesn't need to happen. It shouldn't be allowed to happen. We clearly haven't learnt from previous cases, like Beverley Allitt for example. It's a dreadful state of affairs​
 
r00fie1 said:
With respect: she wasn't "on shift" for "all those deaths" and that's proven in evidence submitted in the shift logs and unit records. In addition, deaths in the unit were recorded prior to her engagement and after her departure from employment in that clinical area. Issues have been raised about the shortage of specialists, and premature transfer of newborn's to and from other hospitals, and the effect of unsanitary conditions and practices on child health. There were also reports of clinical practitioners being observed "Googling" how to insert NGT`s (!), which is totally unprofessional and symptomatic of lack of qualified Paediatricians and, unacceptable supervision and practice Management by senior staff.

There were issues identified where "cutting corners" in practice, lack of sufficient qualified clinical staff and poor supervision, definitely impacted in this case. There are other issues concerning the absence of clear mechanisms, whereby practice issues can be raised quickly and directly with Management. What does it say about the "culture" of the Paediatric Unit that staff felt unable or fearful to raise concerns about clinical practice?

There is a case for considering a claim of "Clinical Manslaughter", where those in Management of the Unit and responsible for implementation of practice and Trust Policy, need to be held accountable. Whether or not Letby is guilty, responsibility rests firmly on the shoulders of her Seniors and Unit Managers and the Trustees.

If correct policies and procedures were in place, Letby would not have been allowed so long to practice the way she did without apprehension or investigation.

It doesn't need to happen. It shouldn't be allowed to happen. We clearly haven't learnt from previous cases, like Beverley Allitt for example. It's a dreadful state of affairs​
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The court was shown the below chart... are you saying they were lied to?

1720010832148.png
 
Way_Out_West said:
The evidence is against you I'm afraid, having been heard throughout one of the longest criminal trials in UK history and been found guilty by jury on many counts of murder and attempted murder.
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Hang on - crossed wires here.

I’m talking about the final claim from the poster to justify his stance.

He said, if the USA report was that strong it would have been picked up by our media.
The evidence is against that - see The Post Office etc.

I wasn’t comment at all on the trial - just that point.
I even started by saying the poster could well be right with his judgement of Letby.,
 
r00fie1 said:
If you read my comments thoroughly, you won't read me making any such accusation. Context is important.
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You said… “she wasn’t on shift for all those deaths”

And “that’s proven in the evidence submitted and shift logs and unit records”

I have just shown you the exact evidence that was presented in court telling you the exact opposite and thus making your statement an accusation.

So have are you saying the evidence is wrong? If so how do you know and where is your evidence?

And if you have seen different evidence does that mean the jury and the court were lied to and thus the conviction needs to be quashed and retrial ordered.
 
Acklam_Lad said:
You said… “she wasn’t on shift for all those deaths”

And “that’s proven in the evidence submitted and shift logs and unit records”

I have just shown you the exact evidence that was presented in court telling you the exact opposite and thus making your statement an accusation.

So have are you saying the evidence is wrong? If so how do you know and where is your evidence?

And if you have seen different evidence does that mean the jury and the court were lied to and thus the conviction needs to be quashed and retrial ordered.
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Im not saying anyone was lied too, so lets get that straight.
Initially there were other deaths attributed to her, but were proven she wasn't on the unit, had just finished or wasn't rostered, so they had to go into the details to establish the facts. A list of crosses doesn't mean anything without context. That being the case, then all those with an X next to their name is a potential killer. I`m not denying her crimes, just trying to place the events surrounding her crimes in context. Reading through reports from the courts and particularly the enquiry into her crimes:

I looked at the terms of reference of the Government enquiry and the Thirlwall Inquiry. Both were highlighted by the Nursing Standard [https://journals.rcni.com/nursing-standard] and the Nursing Times [https://www.nursingtimes.net/]

www.gov.uk

Thirlwall Inquiry: terms of reference

www.gov.uk www.gov.uk

The Thirlwall Inquiry | Examining the events at the Countess of Chester Hospital and their implications following the trial, and subsequent convictions, of former neonatal nurse Lucy Letby of murder and attempted murder of babies at the hospital.

thirlwall.public-inquiry.uk thirlwall.public-inquiry.uk
 
r00fie1 said:
Im not saying anyone was lied too, so lets get that straight.
Initially there were other deaths attributed to her, but were proven she wasn't on the unit, had just finished or wasn't rostered, so they had to go into the details to establish the facts. A list of crosses doesn't mean anything without context. That being the case, then all those with an X next to their name is a potential killer. I`m not denying her crimes, just trying to place the events surrounding her crimes in context. Reading through reports from the courts and particularly the enquiry into her crimes:

I looked at the terms of reference of the Government enquiry and the Thirlwall Inquiry. Both were highlighted by the Nursing Standard [https://journals.rcni.com/nursing-standard] and the Nursing Times [https://www.nursingtimes.net/]

www.gov.uk

Thirlwall Inquiry: terms of reference

www.gov.uk www.gov.uk

The Thirlwall Inquiry | Examining the events at the Countess of Chester Hospital and their implications following the trial, and subsequent convictions, of former neonatal nurse Lucy Letby of murder and attempted murder of babies at the hospital.

thirlwall.public-inquiry.uk thirlwall.public-inquiry.uk
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So just to clear this up. Will you admit your error in your sweeping statement that she wasn’t on shift for every child death when she very clearly was and the shift rota data presented to the court supported this.
 
Acklam_Lad said:
So just to clear this up. Will you admit your error in your sweeping statement that she wasn’t on shift for every child death when she very clearly was and the shift rota data presented to the court supported this.
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If you read that report you will see that she wasnt on shift with every death on the paediatric unit. That's a fact. She was initially suspect for all of them, until established otherwise by the shift logs and rosters.
End of.
 
Whilst not perfect, we have a pretty robust judicial system.

“Gut feelings” based on one article, which seems to me to have its own agenda, isn’t comparable to sitting through every day of that trial and making an informed decision based on the evidence.
 
r00fie1 said:
If you read that report you will see that she wasnt on shift with every death on the paediatric unit. That's a fact. She was initially suspect for all of them, until established otherwise by the shift logs and rosters.
End of.
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Are you seriously dense or on a wind up?

The only person that’s referring to the other children that she WASNT CHARGED FOR is you. Nobody is or has disputed that.

The evidence I have presented to you is the children she was charged for and ultimately convicted for… backed up with by the indisputable evidence shown to the court and that I have shown to you. She was on duty for all 17 children for all 25 events.
 
She was convicted of seven murders and the attempted murder of six others.
She was also found guilty of the death of a premature baby [baby "K"] in a further charge.
www.bbc.co.uk

Lucy Letby guilty of trying to kill baby

The baby's family say they have been forced to endure a "long, torturous and emotional journey - twice".
www.bbc.co.uk
 
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