London Protest

[FabioPorkpie]

Maybe they don't see it ending?

There are plenty around the country who wouldn't have been there feeling exactly the same.

People have rushed out to get a safe vaccine and it's looking more and more likely that it won't make a jot of difference to the way we are existing at the moment.

What makes you think that? I’d say that the vaccines will make a very big difference to the way we are existing at the moment.

 

[Alvez_48]

What makes you think that? I’d say that the vaccines will make a very big difference to the way we are existing at the moment.

I'd say let's wait and see on that front covid bill to be extended till October, right to protest about to be effectively banned with maximum 10 year prison stay, high court judiciary review about to be abolished.

Currently people are not allowed to do anything other than have a coffee with a friend outside.

I can totally understand why people who have had a really tough year are looking at all of this feeling deeply concerned, this creates the momentum for protest. I support these people's rights to protest, BLM supporters rights to protest, Women's rights advocates rights to protest, etc.

 

[Randy]

What makes you think that? I’d say that the vaccines will make a very big difference to the way we are existing at the moment.

Because it's history of last year repeating itself. I'd much rather be proved wrong but it's looking more and more likely that there will be another lockdown later this year. All the hints are there right now.

 

[FabioPorkpie]

I too support the right to protest and think what is happening with the police, crime sentencing and courts Bill is an absolute disgrace and should be headline news. People everywhere should be outraged by it.

But my question was specifically with regards to why Randy had the belief that vaccine rollout won’t change how we are existing at this moment. Surely everybody acknowledges that vaccines will lead to reduction of hospitalisations and death and allow further easing of restrictions?

(For some reason, I can’t crop quote replies on my phone at the moment, so have to reply with the whole quote).

 

[FabioPorkpie]

Because it's history of last year repeating itself. I'd much rather be proved wrong but it's looking more and more likely that there will be another lockdown later this year. All the hints are there right now.

I wouldn’t spend time worrying about what may or may not happen later in the year, just look forward to things getting better with the vaccination program paving the way for sunnier days. Any measures that *may* be imposed later in the year will, in all likelihood, be nowhere near the type of lockdowns we’ve seen.
Sunny days are just around the corner - enjoy them and don’t waste too much time worrying about next winter.

 

[Alvez_48]

Whilst I agree with the sentiment Fabio and we should all live summer to the full.
We shouldn't be ignorant of the continually pushed narrative, trampled on civil liberties and human rights abuses.
The question I guess is, should we ever be 'free' like 2019 again?
Does not one single fibre in you feel like there is a risk that in ten years you will look back on 2020 and think 'that is where it all started'?

 

[Laughing]

It would be extremely naive to believe that this government will willingly give up their emergency powers.

All current and near future legislation tells you all you need to know about where tory ideology is taking us, and its not for our benefit.

 

[Yearbyred]

Yesterday’s march wasn’t some noble protest about the latest government law banning protests.

It was just another anti lockdown, anti mask, anti vaccine protest that we have seen a number of times over the last year.

Look at the people promoting and supporting it. The usual suspects.

 

[Frozen Horse]

The question I guess is, should we ever be 'free' like 2019 again?
Does not one single fibre in you feel like there is a risk that in ten years you will look back on 2020 and think 'that is where it all started'?

I don't feel like that at all.

For me, thinking like that would require some sort of a denial regarding coronavirus, its transmissibility, its ability to mutate and its potential to kill. I am still sufficiently close to the health services to know these are true.

As I said before, we have a plan for lifting these restrictions. If the government reneges on this, people have a right to be angry and can protest then. However, protesting now is sheer self-indulgence: is there a reason the protest has to be now? What is going to happen in the next 6 weeks that will make it impossible to protest if restrictions aren't lifted?

I do think the police have invited this through mishandling of the recent vigil. However, mistakes on one side don't justify mistakes on the other.

 

[Laughing]

I don't feel like that at all.

For me, thinking like that would require some sort of a denial regarding coronavirus, its transmissibility, its ability to mutate and its potential to kill. I am still sufficiently close to the health services to know these are true.

As I said before, we have a plan for lifting these restrictions. If the government reneges on this, people have a right to be angry and can protest then. However, protesting now is sheer self-indulgence.

I do think the police have invited this through mishandling of the recent vigil. However, mistakes on one side don't justify mistakes on the other.

That sounds a little like you can protest but only when you think it's appropriate. That is the antithesis of a protest.

 

[Alvez_48]

Fair enough @Frozen Horse I wish I shared your naivety but your equivalence is absolutely bonkers, thinking that we're currently in a very dangerous phase of state interference does not equate to denying the existence of covid. It really makes you sound uninformed and uneducated to suggest it.

Quick point though protesting when 'allowed' or when it's not 'self-indulgent' isn'ta protest it's a procession.

 

[Frozen Horse]

That sounds a little like you can protest but only when you think it's appropriate. That is the antithesis of a protest.

I'd argue a protest still has to be rational. That's what distinguishes it from a riot.

I still don't understand why anyone would think this is necessary now, rather than in 6 weeks or so?

 

[Laughing]

I think they're nuts frozen but then most people thought the suffragettes and Wilberforce were nuts too.

This government want us working paying tax to their rich donors and watching reality TV, hence the legislation to criminalise protests.

Some are sleepwalking into a tory autocracy.

 

[Joy_Division_Oven_Gloves]

Currently reading this book. Now I’m not one who needs a great deal of convincing as to where the blame for the whole thing lay but this confirms it 100%
On the radio one of the authors, who are investigative journos for The Times, stated that the PM is guilty, and should be tried for, criminal negligence.

 

[mymatelookslikephilstamp]

I'd argue a protest still has to be rational. That's what distinguishes it from a riot.

I still don't understand why anyone would think this is necessary now, rather than in 6 weeks or so?

Maybe because the government are in the process of trying to put through a bill which makes large parts of protesting a criminal offence, and in 6 weeks time that bill will likely have passed?

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

Difference with a reduced amount of essential workers using transport at different times of the day, opposed to hundreds cramming in for a protest

We're the 'hundreds cramming in' any different to the hundreds using the tube during peak travel periods?

 

[A]

We're the 'hundreds cramming in' any different to the hundreds using the tube during peak travel periods?

Only in so far as one might be essential travel for people going to work, the other not quite so essential. We have to modify our behaviour sometimes to suit the circumstances

 

[SuperStu]

No, because I believe in abiding with the law. Whether you or I agree with it is irrelevant.

Dangerous belief that.

 

[SmallTown]

We're the 'hundreds cramming in' any different to the hundreds using the tube during peak travel periods?

I didn't see a lot of masks, or hand sanitiser in the videos of the march

 

[BoroMart]

Does not one single fibre in you feel like there is a risk that in ten years you will look back on 2020 and think 'that is where it all started'?

No it started with the proliferation of right wing authoritarians being pushed into power by foreign misinformation campaigns via social media.

It started with Trump, Brexit, Johnson, Cummings, Orban, Bolsanaro etc.