hopesoboro
Well-known member
Hope you're right Alvez!
Lockdown Deaths
- Thread starter Randy
- Start date
hopesoboro
Well-known member
Is that right,450 people die of cancer a day in UK? Never realized that!Give it a rest, you follow me about a lost puppy dog.
It shows multiple days in hospitals where the worst symptomatic cases go. But because you are actively hoping more and more people die from covid-19 to satisfy your dystopian wet dream you aren't happy. Must be real depressing in your house, I'd usually block somebody like you on a forum but your constant baiting does make me chuckle most days.
450 people on average die of cancer everyday. Think about that the next time you get in your car or turn on your kettle.
People die. It's a fact. You will die, I will die. Kids die, old people die. Men die. Women die. Death is sad but inevitable. If you fretting over it every day gets you through the day crack on.
hopesoboro
Well-known member
No need to drag China into this.
Randy
Well-known member
Laughing
Well-known member
It was a question not an accusation Alvez.
SmallTown
Well-known member
I dont actually. I just have a habit of correcting errors because I think people should know the truth. You made a comment about under 200 deaths A DAY then showed a graph where deaths were over 200 for every day bar one. If this upsets you then please fact check what you publish or learn how to interpret it.Give it a rest, you follow me about a lost puppy dog.
It shows multiple days in hospitals where the worst symptomatic cases go. But because you are actively hoping more and more people die from covid-19 to satisfy your dystopian wet dream you aren't happy. Must be real depressing in your house, I'd usually block somebody like you on a forum but your constant baiting does make me chuckle most days.
450 people on average die of cancer everyday. Think about that the next time you get in your car or turn on your kettle.
People die. It's a fact. You will die, I will die. Kids die, old people die. Men die. Women die. Death is sad but inevitable. If you fretting over it every day gets you through the day crack on.
Laughing
Well-known member
I just did a bit of digging around where the excess deaths are occurring, or at least were until last month. Not surprisingly, excess deaths in hospitals were all covid attributed, as you would expect, and the actual number of deaths in hospitals where covid was not involved were lower than the yearly average. I guess you would expect this with surgery cancellations etc.
When you look at home v care home non-covid deaths, you were right Alvez, most do occur in care homes, but not as big a majority as you might think. On the graphs I looked at, at the peak there were 3,000 unaccounted excesss deaths in care homes and 2,000 unaccounted excess deaths in the home. Not sure about the scale for time, they are useless from that perspective.
In any case here are the graphs:
They were lifted from this article : https://fullfact.org/health/covid-deaths/
When you look at home v care home non-covid deaths, you were right Alvez, most do occur in care homes, but not as big a majority as you might think. On the graphs I looked at, at the peak there were 3,000 unaccounted excesss deaths in care homes and 2,000 unaccounted excess deaths in the home. Not sure about the scale for time, they are useless from that perspective.
In any case here are the graphs:
They were lifted from this article : https://fullfact.org/health/covid-deaths/
Attachments
Randy
Well-known member
Oh it doesn't upset me. I'm not the one who's privately wanting covid-19 deaths to continue or get higher just so you can prove yourself right.
For that to happen though confirmed cases would have to start rising again though, which as you can see below for England, are not.
If that upsets you, then please find me a graph of increasing cases.
Alvez_48
Well-known member
So the question is... Is it other factors or covid or both and also of the excess deaths in care homes in particular where covid is referenced on the death certificate without test are they real covid deaths and will we ever know? I think we can agree the answer is probably not.
NYboro
Well-known member
Cancer is not a communicable disease, so hardly relevant.
Laughing
Well-known member
Alvez, I suspect we will never know, yo uare right. It appears autopsies are not being carried out and a fair bit of guesswork is obviously going on.
I would have liked to have seen a comparison with, for example heart disease deaths, suicides, etc compared with yearly averages. Whilst not a perfect tool it would give some indication of why additional deaths are occurring. I may spend a bit of time this evening looking at that.
My feelings are that whilst lots of deaths are a direct result of the covid strategy, I wonder how many are no diagnosed covid deaths, so for example your heart is weakened by the virus, resulting in a heart attack. Without the necessary autopsy, we will never know.
hopesoboro
Well-known member
I do believe Randy was using that statistic to show that Covid19 deaths weren't/aren't sufficient to continue with this reluctance to get the country back to work and tackle the huge economic problem (and other profound problems) that we have.
Mind Randy can speak for himself!
Randy
Well-known member
It's preventable though much like covid-19.
Millbrook
Well-known member
I'm not too sure about that when half the deaths are 75 years old and above.
Randy
Well-known member
Here's an interesting article from the BBC website talking about collateral damage. Using the ebola outbreak as a comparison.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200528-why-most-covid-19-deaths-wont-be-from-the-virus
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200528-why-most-covid-19-deaths-wont-be-from-the-virus
Laughing
Well-known member
Alvez, Billy Horner kindly pointed me in the direction of stats for April this year that listed the 10 most common causes of death this year compared to April 5 year average. Not finished digesting it yet, but one thing jumps off the page and that is the increase in alzhiemers and dementia deaths. You can only draw 1 of 2 conclusions from that.
1. People with the named diseases are extremely vulnerable to a lockdown situation.
2. There was some underlying undetected condition, such as covid.
I can see that number 1 is likely given the nature of the diseases, not seeing loved ones, and I woudl expect less contact from staff also, given what was going on in care himes during April.
If number 2 were true, I would expect all old age diseases to increase, so heart related diseases, blood diseases, emphysema would also have shown a big spike.
Whatever the reasoning, it is tragic for those people effected.
I will finish reading and re-read and post back some thoughts. If you want to have a look the report can be seen here : https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...d19englandandwales/deathsoccurringinapril2020 it's figure 4 in the document.
1. People with the named diseases are extremely vulnerable to a lockdown situation.
2. There was some underlying undetected condition, such as covid.
I can see that number 1 is likely given the nature of the diseases, not seeing loved ones, and I woudl expect less contact from staff also, given what was going on in care himes during April.
If number 2 were true, I would expect all old age diseases to increase, so heart related diseases, blood diseases, emphysema would also have shown a big spike.
Whatever the reasoning, it is tragic for those people effected.
I will finish reading and re-read and post back some thoughts. If you want to have a look the report can be seen here : https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...d19englandandwales/deathsoccurringinapril2020 it's figure 4 in the document.
Randy
Well-known member
You would be surprised at how quickly those with dementia can deteriorate.
But yes the virus has definitely had an effect, directly and indirectly.
Alvez_48
Well-known member
Well done for doing further research it's interesting but like you say we it's fair to say that the findings can be slanted, however you haven't done that.
