Lockdown Deaths

This was reported about a month ago and all of the unexplained deaths were in care homes and nearly all were probably because of covid but because they either haven't been tested or because the coroner doesn't need all comorbidities, only to determine the cause of death, then the fact that covid is present (or the possibility it is) isn't required. If they were in hospital they still would have died but they'd have had covid mentioned.

Conversely, patients that have died in hospital are recorded as covid, or covid suspected, without confirmation. There are still lots of people dying with covid, not of covid.
 
boromike85 said:
This was reported about a month ago and all of the unexplained deaths were in care homes and nearly all were probably because of covid but because they either haven't been tested or because the coroner doesn't need all comorbidities, only to determine the cause of death, then the fact that covid is present (or the possibility it is) isn't required. If they were in hospital they still would have died but they'd have had covid mentioned.

Conversely, patients that have died in hospital are recorded as covid, or covid suspected, without confirmation. There are still lots of people dying with covid, not of covid.
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This happened to a friends father - no symptoms of Covid but it was put on the death certificate.
 
I'm not going to go out and buy a car before I can go back to the pub or out for a steak with friends somewhere.
Let people decide for themselves now, if it's good enough for others during the beginning of the peak then it's good enough for everybody now the peak has subsided.
 
Has the lockdown actually achieved anything? Yes I get it's flattened the curve etc etc but now we are hearing of excess deaths unrelated to covid-19, 13,000 infact. Stories around the world of excess suicides, cancers undetected/not treated, kids been brought into hospital later than usual so more poorly because parents have been terrified by the media and the government, domestic violence cases rising expediently.

Will the totals add up either way come the end of the year?
 
RandySavage said:
Has the lockdown actually achieved anything? Yes I get it's flattened the curve etc etc but now we are hearing of excess deaths unrelated to covid-19, 13,000 infact. Stories around the world of excess suicides, cancers undetected/not treated, kids been brought into hospital later than usual so more poorly because parents have been terrified by the media and the government, domestic violence cases rising expediently.

Will the totals add up either way come the end of the year?
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Haven’t you just answered your own question?
 
JM14 said:
Haven’t you just answered your own question?
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Well no, because those deaths that may have been caused by covid-19 are been caused by things as a direct result of locking down. I agree we've saved lives but not as many as we will be led to believe.
 
RandySavage said:
Well no, because those deaths that may have been caused by covid-19 are been caused by things as a direct result of locking down. I agree we've saved lives but not as many as we will be led to believe.
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Or may have been caused Covid-19. At the peak of the virus, many care home deaths weren't tested or if 5 people were tested in a care home, no one else was. It was during the peak that most excess deaths occurred. If this was some 'lockdown fever', numbers would increase with length of lockdown. They're were net zero in the last two ONS weekly reports.
 
I didn't. There will be a much more rigorous analysis of the excess deaths at the end of the year. You can't dismiss Covid-19 being partly responsible. There are very few excess deaths at home. (Normal 5 year average - 2020 figures). So at least most excess deaths are either in hospital or care homes which have health care management systems in place and should be interrogatable by public health England when they do their more rigorous analysis.
 
RandySavage said:
Also isn't it strange how China are now moving away from the coronavirus pandemic?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.in...against-india-us-or-taiwan-1682384-2020-05-27

Plus news today of China massing troops and equipment including jets near the Indian border.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ndtv.com/india-news/china-expands-airbase-near-ladakh-fighter-jets-on-tarmac-ndtv-exclusive-2235487?amp=1&akamai-rum=off
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Worth pointing out that China had the most severe lockdown of all, some places entirely shut for 20 weeks.

It also had, by a long way, fewer deaths per million than us.
 
FT article showing the UK has the highest death rate worldwide. There are countries that have fared better than us with more stringent lockdowns.
Link
 
bear66 said:
FT article showing the UK has the highest death rate worldwide. There are countries that have fared better than us with more stringent lockdowns.
Link
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It's the FT that claim all the excess deaths were Covid FFS Bear.

It's blatantly not covid we haven't got a random gene in the UK that makes us more susceptible to every other nation on earth to dying from covid.

We all know if you care to investigate that covid is getting marked on death certificates when it's clearly not the cause of death.

It's frankly turned into a case of anyone on the left using it to beat the Tories which is fine. It has however totally made people lose perspective of what the thing is.

I've seen some outrageous claims by people saying things like 'even if you get it mild you'll never be the same again'.

It's a mild respiratory virus in the vast vast majority of the population.
 
Alvez_48 said:
It's the FT that claim all the excess deaths were Covid FFS Bear.

It's blatantly not covid we haven't got a random gene in the UK that makes us more susceptible to every other nation on earth to dying from covid.

We all know if you care to investigate that covid is getting marked on death certificates when it's clearly not the cause of death.

It's frankly turned into a case of anyone on the left using it to beat the Tories which is fine. It has however totally made people lose perspective of what the thing is.

I've seen some outrageous claims by people saying things like 'even if you get it mild you'll never be the same again'.

It's a mild respiratory virus in the vast vast majority of the population.
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We had one of the weakest, poorly enforced lockdowns and we are nearly at the top of the worst deaths table. Are these two things a coincidence?
 
Alvez_48 said:
It's the FT that claim all the excess deaths were Covid FFS Bear.

It's blatantly not covid we haven't got a random gene in the UK that makes us more susceptible to every other nation on earth to dying from covid.

We all know if you care to investigate that covid is getting marked on death certificates when it's clearly not the cause of death.

It's frankly turned into a case of anyone on the left using it to beat the Tories which is fine. It has however totally made people lose perspective of what the thing is.

I've seen some outrageous claims by people saying things like 'even if you get it mild you'll never be the same again'.

It's a mild respiratory virus in the vast vast majority of the population.
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The FT are not claiming all excess deaths are Covid related
They are reporting the numbers - excess deaths over a 5 year average. This is the government's preferred measure.
The reason that is the measure is because lots of actions were taken to protect from Covid which they knew would have consequences - keeping hospital beds free was bound to have an impact as we saw in care homes.
 
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