Leroy Lita

RandySavage said:
I will never forget what could have been if the right decisions were made after that UEFA Cup Final defeat. Since that game the club has been on a downward spiral of which the managers who have been on charge since aren't really at fault for.

We should have spent big that summer and we could have cemented a top half premier league position for years to follow and then who knows?

As for Lita, genuinely used to enjoy watching him play, always seemed a threat.
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I liked Lita. Not the best football brain, in addition to the offsides did have a tendency to run into cul-de-sacs. However he was an explosive player, strong and quick.

Probably not much in it between him and Britt apart from we got one for free and the other cost £15m.
 
Probably the most inconsistent player I've seen. He could be anonymous. But QPR and reading away were probably the two best performances I've seen from a player since our fall from grace.
 
I think Southgate was badly treated by those above him. Some of Premiership transfer dealings were not his doing and he was thrown in the deep end too early, going from all out player to Premiership manager without anything in between. Having said that it was probably right to sack him. WBA has murdered us at home and we had lost at home to a poor Watford. Without Huth and Tungay we were unlikely to be top 6. They had helped us win early games, but then sold at the end of August. St Leger and Lita were not the same quality.
 
Redwurzel said:
I think Southgate was badly treated by those above him. Some of Premiership transfer dealings were not his doing and he was thrown in the deep end too early, going from all out player to Premiership manager without anything in between. Having said that it was probably right to sack him. WBA has murdered us at home and we had lost at home to a poor Watford. Without Huth and Tungay we were unlikely to be top 6. They had helped us win early games, but then sold at the end of August. St Leger and Lita were not the same quality.
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Tuncay was ridiculously good in those few games he played in this league.
 
I reckon Gibbos confidence in decision making regarding manager/coach appointments must be shot .... Karanka was the last good one ...before that?
 
boromike85 said:
I think Gibson thought it was the squad and the coaching staff that should have had all the credit and not Steve McClaren who I don't think he actually liked. He thought by changing as little as possible that everything would just carry on which was very naive. The manager is the figurehead and has to have the respect of the players and the fans and Southgate didn't have any of the skills he needed when he took over. Once the squad started to break up and the backroom team moved on it showed that the experiment had failed. Our best chance to push on and properly establish ourselves as a challenger and Gibson's gamble backfired massively. Instead of looking like a genius he looked like an idiot and he's continued to show that he isn't a genius with some of the decisions he's made since then. In all his time as chairman I think he has only got 2 or 3 managerial appointments right.
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Robson
Venables (if you count him)
McClaren
Mowbray (best we could do at the time even if it ended badly)
Karanka
Pulis (ok so most won't agree but its just my opinion)

Surely its an absolute minimum of 3?
 
atypical_boro said:
Robson
Venables (if you count him)
McClaren
Mowbray (best we could do at the time even if it ended badly)
Karanka
Pulis (ok so most won't agree but its just my opinion)

Surely its an absolute minimum of 3?
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It depends what criteria we use to define right I suppose. Right being did what was expected then it's more than 3, best for the job then it's less than 3.

E.g. Robson was a rubbish manager tactically. He was able to attract top players and he did well to get promoted twice. He was the right time and place but he wasn't a good manager. Could we have done better with the resources at the time with a better manager? Quite possibly, if not as spectacularly. Venables appointment again was the right time and place to save us but I really didn't like the way it happened. He effectively sacked Robson but kept him around. It was a bad way to handle it even if the outcome was what we needed.

McClaren did very well for us but I don't think Gibson liked him and again he had huge resources to spend. Could someone else have done as well or better with that squad of players?

Since then only Karanka was right really.

Southgate was obviously a terrible appointment because he wasn't ready as detailed above. Strachan was a disaster. I forgot about Mowbray initially but he did do well with what he had but he couldn't get us to do it for a full season. I would have liked to have seen Mowbray with one of the other's resources.

The less said about Monk the better.

No one will ever convince me that Pulis was a good appointment. He has set us back massively with the way he has drilled attacking ineptitude into the squad. I couldn't stand his arrogance, he claimed credit for all sorts of things and completely ignored all of the rubbish he caused. His approach is just about getting results, mostly avoiding defeat than winning, and that negativity has put many fans off.

Woodgate will never make it as a manager so it's just wait it out and hope he doesn't cause too much damage until Gibson sees sense.


Of all of those managers only Southgate and McClaren have gone on to better jobs after us and only McClaren because of what he did with us. None of them have achieved much if anything.
 
boromike85 said:
It depends what criteria we use to define right I suppose. Right being did what was expected then it's more than 3, best for the job then it's less than 3.

E.g. Robson was a rubbish manager tactically. He was able to attract top players and he did well to get promoted twice. He was the right time and place but he wasn't a good manager. Could we have done better with the resources at the time with a better manager? Quite possibly, if not as spectacularly. Venables appointment again was the right time and place to save us but I really didn't like the way it happened. He effectively sacked Robson but kept him around. It was a bad way to handle it even if the outcome was what we needed.

McClaren did very well for us but I don't think Gibson liked him and again he had huge resources to spend. Could someone else have done as well or better with that squad of players?

Since then only Karanka was right really.

Southgate was obviously a terrible appointment because he wasn't ready as detailed above. Strachan was a disaster. I forgot about Mowbray initially but he did do well with what he had but he couldn't get us to do it for a full season. I would have liked to have seen Mowbray with one of the other's resources.

The less said about Monk the better.

No one will ever convince me that Pulis was a good appointment. He has set us back massively with the way he has drilled attacking ineptitude into the squad. I couldn't stand his arrogance, he claimed credit for all sorts of things and completely ignored all of the rubbish he caused. His approach is just about getting results, mostly avoiding defeat than winning, and that negativity has put many fans off.

Woodgate will never make it as a manager so it's just wait it out and hope he doesn't cause too much damage until Gibson sees sense.


Of all of those managers only Southgate and McClaren have gone on to better jobs after us and only McClaren because of what he did with us. None of them have achieved much if anything.
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You've moved the goalposts a bit here though. You've gone from the managerial appoint being 'right' to 'was he the best possible person for the job in the entire universe?'.

I think most Boro fans would accept that at the very least Robson, Venables, McClaren and Karanka were the 'right' appointments.
 
Cardiffdaffs said:
I personally I think it was the biggest mistake Gibson made. That and appointing Strachan.

Well despiTe what was said in the video it was a footballing decision - but a bad one. I don’t think many fans were on board with GS from the off. A novice etc. Then after relegation he’d lost the fans and despite being 2nd the said fans were after his blood. It took just a couple of bad results to convince Gibson to act and appease the demand for his sacking.
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Interesting that. At the time I was ok with the Strachan decision. He’s had a decent pedigree (from memory)
No doubting it went pear shaped
Didn’t he forgo his £500k pay off?
 
atypical_boro said:
You've moved the goalposts a bit here though. You've gone from the managerial appoint being 'right' to 'was he the best possible person for the job in the entire universe?'.

I think most Boro fans would accept that at the very least Robson, Venables, McClaren and Karanka were the 'right' appointments.
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Me too really but I didn't count Venables because he wasn't a permanent manager. They were my 3 but I had the other points in my head when I was considering right vs best possible.
 
The old Tuncay myth again... He came on late and scored in a 3-0 win at Swansea (we were already 2 up and game over) and then played against a poor Doncaster side at home and scored (I think Lita got injured early doors)

How anyone can say he was good never mind ridiculously good I don't know. He was a bit part player
 
Cooper671 said:
The old Tuncay myth again... He came on late and scored in a 3-0 win at Swansea (we were already 2 up and game over) and then played against a poor Doncaster side at home and scored (I think Lita got injured early doors)

How anyone can say he was good never mind ridiculously good I don't know. He was a bit part player
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I actually thought he was overrated in the PL too. I never took to him like some fans did. He clearly had talent though.
 
Cooper671 said:
The old Tuncay myth again... He came on late and scored in a 3-0 win at Swansea (we were already 2 up and game over) and then played against a poor Doncaster side at home and scored (I think Lita got injured early doors)

How anyone can say he was good never mind ridiculously good I don't know. He was a bit part player
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You honestly don't think Tuncay was a good player?
 
I don't think he was great for us. Especially given the hype when we signed him. He tried hard and had a bit of skill which quite often didn't come off. He looked good in a very poor team, but even Gary O'Neill looked good in the relegation season by virtue of running around a lot.
 
My point is there is a myth that Tuncay was some reason for our early season championship form. He got a couple of goals one of which was already game over and then against a poor Doncaster side at home. He was a bit part player off the bench. Him leaving was not relevant at all but people seem to think he was a pivotal player
 
Well it was me who mentioned Tuncay looking good in the Championship and he did, as the stats you provided prove. Nobody mentioned him being pivotal.
 
I accept I'm probably in a minority here, but I actually think Southgate did better than the gets credit for. He oversaw a period when the club looked to drastically reduce its costs and any manager would find that difficult, especially so given the more expensive signings that were brought in didn't really do it for us as a collective.

If he'd lost the dressing room I could of understood it more, but he didn't and whilst I form was a bit patchy we were still right in the mix (and on the back of a home win) when he got the axe.

Gibson has undoubtedly made some mistakes when appointing managers, but I think sacking Southgate was up there amongst the worst, in hindsight.
 
I've always said Gibson made two big mistakes with regards to Southgate - the first mistake was not sacking him around Christmas time during our Premier League season, whilst Sam Allardyce was available, and the other mistake was not giving him until Christmas time the following season in the Championship.

I think fan pressure was a big factor. I'll always remember us going a goal down at home to Leicester, and many fans turning on Southgate that night.

I think a big turning point that season was losing Huth and Tuncay. If we'd somehow managed to keep them I think we'd have been play-offs at least that season, and Southgate would have kept his job.
 
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