Leroy Lita

When Leroy played for us I was stood next to him at Darlo railway station, waiting for my wife coming back from London and he was waiting for his girlfriend from the same train. We chatted about the current injury keeping him from playing and he was quite affable and friendly. What I couldn't avert my eyes from was an enormous diamond and platinum ring on his finger, matching ear studs and huge gold chain around his neck. Bling personified and driving a huge black Hummer:cool:

#UTB
 
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alanmoodysdog said:
its what we all thought about the strachen era .... interesting take on Southgate.. why did he leave?
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I personally I think it was the biggest mistake Gibson made. That and appointing Strachan.

Well despiTe what was said in the video it was a footballing decision - but a bad one. I don’t think many fans were on board with GS from the off. A novice etc. Then after relegation he’d lost the fans and despite being 2nd the said fans were after his blood. It took just a couple of bad results to convince Gibson to act and appease the demand for his sacking.
 
Lita used to get carded for taking his shirt off every time he scored. We now have the time to ponder: what is the maximum number of goals he could score in a Championship season, assuming he started the maximum number of matches possible? Lots of 'braces' bagged, presumably.
 
Cardiffdaffs said:
I personally I think it was the biggest mistake Gibson made. That and appointing Strachan.

Well despiTe what was said in the video it was a footballing decision - but a bad one. I don’t think many fans were on board with GS from the off. A novice etc. Then after relegation he’d lost the fans and despite being 2nd the said fans were after his blood. It took just a couple of bad results to convince Gibson to act and appease the demand for his sacking.
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We weren't second, we were fourth albeit only one point off top. It was very tight in the early season and most people, including me as well as Gibson obviously, never really believed he would keep us there and his sacking felt inevitable even at a time when Gibson hardly sacked anyone.

Its funny how, 9 years later, after he stumbled upon the England job and got us to a semi-final we had a clear run to (going out to a country smaller than Scotland) some of our fans have now decided he was going to be a brilliant manager all along and we should have kept him in charge forever, despite him taking us backwards continually the whole time he was here having inherited a UEFA Cup final squad (a number of whom he fell out with and/or didn't know how to manage).

That said, I loved him as a player and he'll always be a legend to me.
 
Sacking Southgate was 100% the correct decision. The problem was the timing. He should've gone as soon as relegation was confirmed, if not before. That squad was still looking at the top half of the table early in the relegation season. It was good enough to stay up.

He was sacked not long after getting beaten 5-0 at home. It was one of the worst home performances I've ever witnessed and then we struggled for a few weeks. That will have made Gibson's mind up. The result against Derby was irrelevant. He had already gone. There was no way Southgate was keeping us challenging that season. Our squad was still full of PL players early in the season. Once the transfer window closed and we lost a few of them we started to struggle. Adam Johnson head and shoulders above everyone and was winning us matches on his own. It had nothing to do with Southgate.

Obviously Strachan was a disaster but Southgate had to go. He had already lost the fans.
 
atypical_boro said:
We weren't second, we were fourth albeit only one point off top. It was very tight in the early season and most people, including me as well as Gibson obviously, never really believed he would keep us there and his sacking felt inevitable even at a time when Gibson hardly sacked anyone.

Its funny how, 9 years later, after he stumbled upon the England job and got us to a semi-final we had a clear run to (going out to a country smaller than Scotland) some of our fans have now decided he was going to be a brilliant manager all along and we should have kept him in charge forever, despite him taking us backwards continually the whole time he was here having inherited a UEFA Cup final squad (a number of whom he fell out with and/or didn't know how to manage).

That said, I loved him as a player and he'll always be a legend to me.
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who did he fall out with or 'not know how to manage'? Parlour arguably although based on Parlour's "hilarious" anecdote, I don't think he had much choice but to get rid. Fergie got rid of better players for less. Who else? Not aware of anyone slating him after leaving.

Viduka and Downing both probably played their best football under Southgate.

As for inheriting the UEFA cup final squad. Yes, he did. But it was an ageing squad and one by all accounts we couldn't afford so he had to dismantle it. So not sure that's a fair stick to beat with him.

His signings were in the main very poor (of course the debate around who signs the players will never end, but let's assume he was involved in the decision making) and he was tactically naive at times, but no more so than you'd expect any other rookie manager to be.

He showed promise as a coach. Problem was at the time we needed an immediate return to the premier league and he needed time to learn.

He had a fortunate run to the world cup semi finals, but previous England managers have struggled against lesser nations despite having far superior squads at their disposal. And it's not like we stormed through the group stage and knocked out Brazil and Italy on the way to the semi in Italia 90 is it?
 
Sacking Southgate was 100% the correct decision. The problem was the timing

Totally agree. Any idea that we were going anywhere that season glosses over some of the results we'd had up to that point. Problem is all Strachan has to do was make us a bit more solid but he actually ripped everything up and started again with his own bang average (or worse) players
 
wilkos_perm said:
Sacking Southgate was 100% the correct decision. The problem was the timing

Totally agree. Any idea that we were going anywhere that season glosses over some of the results we'd had up to that point. Problem is all Strachan has to do was make us a bit more solid but he actually ripped everything up and started again with his own bang average (or worse) players
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Agree the timing was wrong. If he'd gone immediately after WBA no one would have batted an eyelid.
 
festa5 said:
who did he fall out with or 'not know how to manage'? Parlour arguably although based on Parlour's "hilarious" anecdote, I don't think he had much choice but to get rid. Fergie got rid of better players for less. Who else? Not aware of anyone slating him after leaving.

Viduka and Downing both probably played their best football under Southgate.

As for inheriting the UEFA cup final squad. Yes, he did. But it was an ageing squad and one by all accounts we couldn't afford so he had to dismantle it. So not sure that's a fair stick to beat with him.

His signings were in the main very poor (of course the debate around who signs the players will never end, but let's assume he was involved in the decision making) and he was tactically naive at times, but no more so than you'd expect any other rookie manager to be.

He showed promise as a coach. Problem was at the time we needed an immediate return to the premier league and he needed time to learn.

He had a fortunate run to the world cup semi finals, but previous England managers have struggled against lesser nations despite having far superior squads at their disposal. And it's not like we stormed through the group stage and knocked out Brazil and Italy on the way to the semi in Italia 90 is it?
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I was referring to Parlour and Yakubu mainly, but there was a notable theme with 'big name' players not being able to get away quick enough once he was in charge. It might be because they knew we had no money, and they wanted more, but it might also be because they knew the manager wasn't taking us where they wanted to go so asked for silly money to stay. This part is purely subjective, of course, but my own view is that it was the latter, or at least a combination of both. The real cost-cutting didn't start immediately after he took over, it was once we were relegated. The bottom line is, though, he had money to spend to replace most of them and bought some absolute dross with it (some of the worst signings the club has ever made) and not just the 'gift' of Alvez.

Of the 16-strong side named in the UEFA Cup final, how many outfield players were 'old'? I can count 2, one of them was himself.

Fair point about the run to the WC semis, he does deserve credit for not losing to one of the banana skins sooner than he did.
 
atypical_boro said:
I was referring to Parlour and Yakubu mainly, but there was a notable theme with 'big name' players not being able to get away quick enough once he was in charge. It might be because they knew we had no money, and they wanted more, but it might also be because they knew the manager wasn't taking us where they wanted to go so asked for silly money to stay. This part is purely subjective, of course, but my own view is that it was the latter, or at least a combination of both. The real cost-cutting didn't start immediately after he took over, it was once we were relegated. The bottom line is, though, he had money to spend to replace most of them and bought some absolute dross with it (some of the worst signings the club has ever made) and not just the 'gift' of Alvez.

Of the 16-strong side named in the UEFA Cup final, how many outfield players were 'old'? I can count 2, one of them was himself.

Fair point about the run to the WC semis, he does deserve credit for not losing to one of the banana skins sooner than he did.
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I always got the impression it was more about wages (the cost cutting) than fees.

Suppose it depends how you define 'old'. Schwarzer, Southgate, Jimmy and Boateng were in their 30s (I think). But all were key players and all bar Schwarzer on the wane. Admittedly Schwarzer had plenty of good years left in him and was arguably Southgate's biggest mistake but I suspect the club didn't want to commit to a longish contract for him either. Also had Parlour, Mendieta and Ehiogu in the squad who needed moving on.

Agree with the transfer dealings though. Too many "projects" not enough proven quality. But of course prospects don't need paying as much.

Re: Yakubu, I think he'd have been like that with anyone in charge. He decided he wanted European football and a move. But Southgate got a good season out of him before he downed tools so I'd dispute it was his man management or lack of that was the problem.
 
festa5 said:
I always got the impression it was more about wages (the cost cutting) than fees.

Suppose it depends how you define 'old'. Schwarzer, Southgate, Jimmy and Boateng were in their 30s (I think). But all were key players and all bar Schwarzer on the wane. Admittedly Schwarzer had plenty of good years left in him and was arguably Southgate's biggest mistake but I suspect the club didn't want to commit to a longish contract for him either. Also had Parlour, Mendieta and Ehiogu in the squad who needed moving on.

Agree with the transfer dealings though. Too many "projects" not enough proven quality. But of course prospects don't need paying as much.

Re: Yakubu, I think he'd have been like that with anyone in charge. He decided he wanted European football and a move. But Southgate got a good season out of him before he downed tools so I'd dispute it was his man management or lack of that was the problem.
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Its a sentiment regularly attached to that group of players, that they were 'aging', but there was only Jimmy and himself who were on the wane imho. Viduka played his best football for us under Southgate (suppose you'd have to give him some credit for that), but Massimo was still here, as was Yakubu, and he failed to get them to buy into his way of doing things, European football shouldn't have been totally out of the question but it was because GS just wasn't cutting the mustard.

We still weren't short of decent strikers when he took over, and I don't remember George being on the wane at all and he was only just gone 30 with years left. Most squads have one or two older players and that one was no different, but it also had a lot of youth (Downing, Morrison, Cattermole etc) and many players in their mid-20s.

That said, I was all for him being given the job, but by the January of 2009 he should have gone, and definitely by the summer. Waiting til the autumn was strange but it was better late than never. No matter what he achieves with England (and in my heart of hearts I'll still be flabbergasted if we get to a major final under him or even another semi) I'll still never believe that we should have hung onto him 10 years ago, at the time he really wasn't in the right job. But horses for courses.
 
"That said, I was all for him being given the job, but by the January of 2009 he should have gone, ".

I agree with this. I remember us getting bullied by Fulham at xmas/new year that season, a time when Fulham were struggling and low on confidence, but we made them look brilliant and you could see GS had no idea how to change it during that game. We got battered 0-3 in the end. I said on FMTTM afterwards he'll take us down, and got pelters for it.

A brilliant player for us, and I wish it had worked out. But he was too inexperienced for the job he was asked to do. Gibsons biggest mistake was not giving GS an experienced #2 to work alongside - someone who had been there and done it. He needed a Venables/Robbo type partnership that particular season imo.
 
I will never forget what could have been if the right decisions were made after that UEFA Cup Final defeat. Since that game the club has been on a downward spiral of which the managers who have been on charge since aren't really at fault for.

We should have spent big that summer and we could have cemented a top half premier league position for years to follow and then who knows?

As for Lita, genuinely used to enjoy watching him play, always seemed a threat.
 
RandySavage said:
I will never forget what could have been if the right decisions were made after that UEFA Cup Final defeat. Since that game the club has been on a downward spiral of which the managers who have been on charge since aren't really at fault for.

We should have spent big that summer and we could have cemented a top half premier league position for years to follow and then who knows?

As for Lita, genuinely used to enjoy watching him play, always seemed a threat.
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He was always F***ing offside, I know that.
 
My lasting memory of Leroy Lita is when he got a second yellow card and sent off for taking his shirt off after scoring, when he was our only fit striker. Pretty much summed him up, idiot.
 
I think Gibson thought it was the squad and the coaching staff that should have had all the credit and not Steve McClaren who I don't think he actually liked. He thought by changing as little as possible that everything would just carry on which was very naive. The manager is the figurehead and has to have the respect of the players and the fans and Southgate didn't have any of the skills he needed when he took over. Once the squad started to break up and the backroom team moved on it showed that the experiment had failed. Our best chance to push on and properly establish ourselves as a challenger and Gibson's gamble backfired massively. Instead of looking like a genius he looked like an idiot and he's continued to show that he isn't a genius with some of the decisions he's made since then. In all his time as chairman I think he has only got 2 or 3 managerial appointments right.
 
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