Labour's October Budget

Andy_W said:
30k draw down per year from 300k would last about 14-15 years under average market conditions, so from like 70-85 etc.

Like I said, it was a very basic example.
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I've run the figures and it checks out. Although I wonder WTF I would be spending £30k on at age 85. Nappies and morphine I suppose.
 
sherlock said:
It's not a lot of money really when you have to pay housing/rent costs out of it, as that will be the reality for many older people in future.
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The thought of paying rent at age 80 is mind bogglingly depressing. Landlords should be outlawed.
 
ThePrisoner said:
The thought of paying rent at age 80 is mind bogglingly depressing. Landlords should be outlawed.
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It's a catastrophe waiting to happen. Are we going to have millions of 70+ year olds homeless? That's what looks like happening.

In reality I guess it will cost billions per year to cover these people's rental bills (which absolutely has to happen, we are not the USA). The housing crisis should be Labour's big overarching project.
 
Andy_W said:
Higher earners need to do a SA anyway don't they (so they single higher earner likely already would be), if they're benefitting from the 40% pension relief, as they don't automatically get that back unless the SA to get it, they only get 20% automatically?

Loads of people don't realise they actually need to do this though, to get full relief.
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I just called HMRC and got them to adjust my tax code to take it into account, never done a SA
 
ThePrisoner said:
I've run the figures and it checks out. Although I wonder WTF I would be spending £30k on at age 85. Nappies and morphine I suppose.
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Exactly, they don't need that, and that's on top of a lump sum and state pension giving them another 20k per year too. Basically 45k per year after tax, that person does not need any state pension that's for sure, not when times are as rough as they are for younger folk.

I know quite a few people who are higher earners/ fairly well off and their plan seems to be to retire as early as their savings will cover them for a few years (some as early as 50), before their private pension is up for access (at 55-57). They plan to live the dream abroad with higher financial risk until 70 or whatever, then maybe move back and just live on the state pension only and scale their lives back again. Sounds like a great deal if it works, but there's a chance they will run out of cash before getting the state pension of course, if the state pension even exists then (I'm personally assuming it won't). But if that happens they just downsize the house, or sell it and go into rented.

So basically they plan to blow the lot early and live the dream for 15-20 years, then the idea is the next generations of tax payers will cover them when they know they won't need to spend as much, as won't be traveling around as much etc.

In short, the major gains they've had in house equity, and tax efficient pensions is providing massive sums of insurance for them, so they basically have the option to go wild. Most don't seem to be that fussed about passing that wealth on.
 
Colgates_shaving_foam said:
It's a catastrophe waiting to happen. Are we going to have millions of 70+ year olds homeless? That's what looks like happening.

In reality I guess it will cost billions per year to cover these people's rental bills (which absolutely has to happen, we are not the USA). The housing crisis should be Labour's big overarching project.
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No, that won't happen, of all the people who will end up on the streets, the 70+ year olds will be last.

Paying rent at 80 is fine, if you're being given money to pay it, or if you've had a house go 10x in value which will cover the rent for 20 years and still leave a load left over.
 
Andy_W said:
No, that won't happen, of all the people who will end up on the streets, the 70+ year olds will be last.

Paying rent at 80 is fine, if you're being given money to pay it, or if you've had a house go 10x in value which will cover the rent for 20 years and still leave a load left over.
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I meant in 40 years time when the 30 year olds of today are 70 and have been renting their whole lives. If they are on reduced income after retirement how will they afford to rent?
 
Nano said:
Re: the wealthy avoiding tax. This popped up on Instagram from the Trevor Noah show. It's related to America but it's the same situation that the wealthy can do whatever they want without having to pay tax.

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That is a great example of how money helps you make money (not that Musk will be making much with Twitter/X by the looks of it!), and how once you have wealth, it can be used to cement that wealth.

Something needs to be done about that. Maybe any time you use unrealised assets in this way, you pay the tax on the "cash value" of them at that point in time - a bit like benefit in kind
 
Matt said:
That is a great example of how money helps you make money (not that Musk will be making much with Twitter/X by the looks of it!), and how once you have wealth, it can be used to cement that wealth.

Something needs to be done about that. Maybe any time you use unrealised assets in this way, you pay the tax on the "cash value" of them at that point in time - a bit like benefit in kind
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There is probably a simple solution around taxing loans against collateral on the value of that collateral for this specific situation.

It would probably stop this sort of behaviour but they'd just find another way around it. That's what is needed though. Systematically close loopholes until there is no option but to pay tax.
 
WeeGord said:
No, I see the far right neanderthals resorting to 'witty' names like Two Tier Keir, Sir Kid Starver and Keith across social media, in pubs and clubs and sadly even with a couple of members of my wife's family.

They are almost always EDL / Reform types with a simmering racism and chip on their shoulder at their core.

If you're not in that 99%, what's your excuse for using childish moniker such as that, which serve no purpose other than making you look daft?
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WeeGord complaining about people using childish monikers and calling people names.

Pot, kettle, black comes to mind 🤔
 
Colgates_shaving_foam said:
I meant in 40 years time when the 30 year olds of today are 70 and have been renting their whole lives. If they are on reduced income after retirement how will they afford to rent?
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Ah I get yeah, yeah these need help, but a slight saving grace is they've been auto enrolled in a private pension.

If they're skint though then means testing shouldn't be touching them, they've been screwed more than enough.
 
There is no need for an austerity budget. There is no "black hole" that needs to be filled.

www.taxresearch.org.uk

Six ways to fund Labour’s “black hole”

According to Rachel Reeves, she and Kier Starmer need to find £22 billion to fund the levels of government spending that Rishi Sunak and Jeremy Hunt planned for the economy from March 2024 onwards. The first thing to say about this claim, which very clearly originates in the UK Treasury, is...
www.taxresearch.org.uk
 
iamborome said:
There is no need for an austerity budget. There is no "black hole" that needs to be filled.

www.taxresearch.org.uk

Six ways to fund Labour’s “black hole”

According to Rachel Reeves, she and Kier Starmer need to find £22 billion to fund the levels of government spending that Rishi Sunak and Jeremy Hunt planned for the economy from March 2024 onwards. The first thing to say about this claim, which very clearly originates in the UK Treasury, is...
www.taxresearch.org.uk
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I like Richard Murphy, speaks a lot of sense (y)
 
ThePrisoner said:
I've run the figures and it checks out. Although I wonder WTF I would be spending £30k on at age 85. Nappies and morphine I suppose.
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This is why I want to be finished work by 62. I'd hope to have 10 relatively healthy years and that's when I'm going to spend whatever I've got. Why do I want money at 80, what the hell am I going to do with it? The kids already know not to expect an inheritance and they're fine with it. I got nothing from my parents. When I'm in my mid 70s if I can't survive on my state pension I'll just throw myself on to social services 🤣
 
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