Labour Party purge/staff cuts.

SuperStu

Well-known member

Right, just got through this second one. So essentially when you said:

Corbyn's inner circle behaved appallingly between 2017 and 2019

What you meant was they didn't all just fully back remain, all along, every step of the way? :rolleyes:
 

SuperStu

Well-known member
You earlier accused me of being one eyed, but actually I am the one looking at both sides. I've used words like 'disgusting', 'disgraceful' and 'appalling' to describe the actions of the PLP/right of the Party and I mean it. Where is your analysis of the Left, where is the evidence you have even been prepared to look at them critically. It appears you have nothing critical to offer.

Well that's because my comments on the thread are mostly either looking at Starmer's leadership of the party or disagreeing with things you've posted.

Firstly I don't think you have to apply some kind of Trumpian "many fine/disgraceful people on both sides" to every issue. Sometimes one side is in the right and the other in the wrong.

As it happens I have plenty of criticism for Corbyn and the left. They were gulliable and soft. They wasted too much time. There was a time when Corbyn had the membership behind him, and a majority on the NEC. He should have made use of it to sort the party out. We could have had mandatory reselection and got rid of all the scummy saboteur MPs.

But hey ho, it doesn't matter now. The left is completely routed as far as I can see. I'm not sure why you've bothered to get this thread going again today to be honest (in my own case the reason is obvious, bitterness! :ROFLMAO:) You right wing Labour folk need to learn to take yes for an answer. You've got what you wanted! The lefts dead for another 30 years and the respectable centrist Labour party and it's earnest MPs can abstain from all the tory policies they want.
 

SuperStu

Well-known member
It gives a reasonable summing up of the journalists very balanced book


Deary me the next two links are just more of the exact same :ROFLMAO:

You earlier accused me of being one eyed, but actually I am the one looking at both sides.

Both sides? It's all just Gabriel Pogrund! Are you on commission for him or something?
 

Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret

Well-known member
I've always said I'll wait for the manifesto. Trouble is I don't know now whether I would trust them to stick to the manifesto. As things stand I'm spoiling my ballot.
 

Lefty

Well-known member
Deary me the next two links are just more of the exact same :ROFLMAO:



Both sides? It's all just Gabriel Pogrund! Are you on commission for him or something?

I'm not sure what is going on in your mind, Stu.

In the New European articles I linked we had Francis Beckett, who co-authored a book with Mark Seddon about Jeremy Corbyn, give an example of some dreadful politicking by Milne on anti-semitism. We also had an article by him referring to a book by Gabriel Pogrund AND Patrick Maguire. I linked to their book, but also to a podcast as this would give you a quicker appreciation perhaps of the tone and balance

You dismiss my claim that I am looking at both sides as 'it's all just Gabriel Pogrund!'. Even if he was my only source, that doesn't mean it isn't both sides. The fella is a journalist and he and his co-author spoke to everyone they could, from every faction and position and political persuasion that was involved in the Labour Party's shenanigans under Corbyn. They spoke to the people in the rooms and they read the documents and even the whatsapp messages to verify what they could. The account they give is factual, it is balanced. That you don't like that, in fact dismiss it out of hand as you have, says much about your own mindset which is clearly way too biased to allow you to form a balanced opinion. You're not the only one.

There is plenty of scathing criticism of Corbyn's opponents and credit and understanding given to Corbyn, Milne, Murphy etc in the books. Even in the two articles, when they touch on the anti-semitism, make it clear that all four authors conclude Corbyn is not anti-semitic. That isn't the point, the criticism is how they handled the affair.

Antisemitism and Brexit were important factors. You need to accept that.
 

Same_as_before

Well-known member
Lefty. I never noticed any anti-Semitism when I was in the party although it was heavily pro Palestine.

But the 'left' seemed to cry to the rule book at every turn. They huddled in their own groups and had more collective views. A bit babyish to me.
 

Lefty

Well-known member
Lefty. I never noticed any anti-Semitism when I was in the party although it was heavily pro Palestine.

But the 'left' seemed to cry to the rule book at every turn. They huddled in their own groups and had more collective views. A bit babyish to me.

When the allegations first surfaced I was utterly baffled that it was still a thing in the UK let alone in the Labour Party.
 

Lefty

Well-known member
The next elections already mathematically lost. At best, asking people to "bite their tongue" until Starmer's Labour have had a term in power is asking them to keep shtum until about 2034.

The next election is difficult for Labour to win, but not mathematically lost if there is an alliance. The public are actually leading on this.
 

Lefty

Well-known member
But with who? The Lib Dems? How would the left of the party feel about that?

With everyone who is not Tory or DUP or UKIP/Faragey loons.

'How would the left of the party feel about that?' - Exactly the point some of us have been making on this thread. Corbyn wasn't open to it, some in Labour now are.

 

Laughing

Well-known member
The next election is difficult for Labour to win, but not mathematically lost if there is an alliance. The public are actually leading on this.
I think you are right lefty, a progressive alliance is the only way forward at the minute, unless there is a total collapse in support for the tory party.

Both labour and the libdems have hinted recently at this kind of alliance.

On the wider issue the PLP are clearly not a broad church and probably never has been. I would hazard a guess that most peoples political ideology hovers around the center ground with some support network wanted but not just handouts, decent funding and pay for our services and education sectors.

Where Labour are now is probably a shade right of where I am currently, but are still representative enough of my political views.

if you are way over to the left, the labour party is probably not for you and in truth you would be largely unrepresented at the moment. In the last election the center ground felt abandoned, it happens.
 

bear66

Well-known member
With everyone who is not Tory or DUP or UKIP/Faragey loons.

'How would the left of the party feel about that?' - Exactly the point some of us have been making on this thread. Corbyn wasn't open to it, some in Labour now are.

Starmer had an opportunity to work with Lib Dems, Greens, SNP and Plaid earlier this year. He didn't.
 

Lefty

Well-known member
I think you are right lefty, a progressive alliance is the only way forward at the minute, unless there is a total collapse in support for the tory party.

Both labour and the libdems have hinted recently at this kind of alliance.

On the wider issue the PLP are clearly not a broad church and probably never has been. I would hazard a guess that most peoples political ideology hovers around the center ground with some support network wanted but not just handouts, decent funding and pay for our services and education sectors.

Where Labour are now is probably a shade right of where I am currently, but are still representative enough of my political views.

if you are way over to the left, the labour party is probably not for you and in truth you would be largely unrepresented at the moment. In the last election the center ground felt abandoned, it happens.

The make up of the PLP is too narrow. I did think Corbyn was right about reforming the party to be more truly democratic from the ground up.
 

Laughing

Well-known member
The make up of the PLP is too narrow. I did think Corbyn was right about reforming the party to be more truly democratic from the ground up.
I really liked Corbyn, and he might have been a leader for Labour when they were riding high. His 2019 manifesto was , ultimately, to far reaching, and probably was in it's initial form too.

For me, I want Labour to be a political force and if that means chopping away some of the party, AND, it makes the party more electable, that wouldn't bother me too much. What I don't want to see, as does anyone else, I suppose, is to see Starmer gut the party for no gains.

Lifes easy for me, relatively, but I want my kids to grow up in a fairer society than I did, through the thatcher years.
 

Lefty

Well-known member
Starmer had an opportunity to work with Lib Dems, Greens, SNP and Plaid earlier this year. He didn't.

He had other battles to consider.

Plenty of rumours in the last week that this has changed. The Mail, Telegraph and the Times seem worried anyway.

Let's hope it leads to electoral reform, with PR.
 

bear66

Well-known member
He had other battles to consider.

Plenty of rumours in the last week that this has changed. The Mail, Telegraph and the Times seem worried anyway.

Let's hope it leads to electoral reform, with PR.
No he didn't. It was Starmer continuing Labour policy; they even said it at the time.
 
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