Labour Party purge/staff cuts.

Lefty said:
I'm not sure what is going on in your mind, Stu.

In the New European articles I linked we had Francis Beckett, who co-authored a book with Mark Seddon about Jeremy Corbyn, give an example of some dreadful politicking by Milne on anti-semitism. We also had an article by him referring to a book by Gabriel Pogrund AND Patrick Maguire. I linked to their book, but also to a podcast as this would give you a quicker appreciation perhaps of the tone and balance

You dismiss my claim that I am looking at both sides as 'it's all just Gabriel Pogrund!'. Even if he was my only source, that doesn't mean it isn't both sides. The fella is a journalist and he and his co-author spoke to everyone they could, from every faction and position and political persuasion that was involved in the Labour Party's shenanigans under Corbyn. They spoke to the people in the rooms and they read the documents and even the whatsapp messages to verify what they could. The account they give is factual, it is balanced. That you don't like that, in fact dismiss it out of hand as you have, says much about your own mindset which is clearly way too biased to allow you to form a balanced opinion. You're not the only one.

There is plenty of scathing criticism of Corbyn's opponents and credit and understanding given to Corbyn, Milne, Murphy etc in the books. Even in the two articles, when they touch on the anti-semitism, make it clear that all four authors conclude Corbyn is not anti-semitic. That isn't the point, the criticism is how they handled the affair.

Antisemitism and Brexit were important factors. You need to accept that.
Click to expand...
This is a thread about Keir Starmer and his shenanigans. It isn't about Corbyn it's about Starmer, but as usual it always, always comes back to Corbyn. Well Jeremy isn't the leader of the party anymore, and hasn't been for quite some time. Did he have his faults? Of course he did. As did every leader before and after him and just like every PM we've ever had. Nobody is perfect.

However, of all the people on this thread who defend Starmer, you are all comfortable with his purging of left wing Jews, and his expulsion of other left wing groups, here is no criticism there. You address the people who supported Corbyn's Danish style socialism as some kind of dangerous sub-group who need to be ejected from the party. None of you have anything to say about his sacking of RLB or the total lack of people from the left on his benches and yet of course you appeal for support from all sides; for a united party. You don't criticise his losing over 150,000 members although like Corbyn before him it is his job to unite the party, and you have nothing to say about the party that was left in rude financial health being on the edge of bankruptcy. Perhaps you will be happy to see big business fill the vacuum in return for favours.

Corbyn ain't the leader anymore but he's certainly a useful distraction device.
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
This is a thread about Keir Starmer and his shenanigans. It isn't about Corbyn it's about Starmer, but as usual it always, always comes back to Corbyn. Well Jeremy isn't the leader of the party anymore, and hasn't been for quite some time. Did he have his faults? Of course he did. As did every leader before and after him and just like every PM we've ever had. Nobody is perfect.

However, of all the people on this thread who defend Starmer, you are all comfortable with his purging of left wing Jews, and his expulsion of other left wing groups, here is no criticism there. You address the people who supported Corbyn's Danish style socialism as some kind of dangerous sub-group who need to be ejected from the party. None of you have anything to say about his sacking of RLB or the total lack of people from the left on his benches and yet of course you appeal for support from all sides; for a united party. You don't criticise his losing over 150,000 members although like Corbyn before him it is his job to unite the party, and you have nothing to say about the party that was left in rude financial health being on the edge of bankruptcy. Perhaps you will be happy to see big business fill the vacuum in return for favours.

Corbyn ain't the leader anymore but he's certainly a useful distraction device.
Click to expand...

The opening post was about Labour expelling four groups from the party and staff cuts.

I'm not happy with staff cuts, but I'm perfectly comfortable with those four groups being thrown out if that is what Starmer wants and the NEC concur.

'Reacting to the vote today, a Jewish Labour Movement spokesperson said: “We welcome this decision and the strong political signal it sends – membership of these groups is incompatible with Labour’s values and its drive to tackle antisemitism in our party.”
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
This is a thread about Keir Starmer and his shenanigans. It isn't about Corbyn it's about Starmer, but as usual it always, always comes back to Corbyn. Well Jeremy isn't the leader of the party anymore, and hasn't been for quite some time. Did he have his faults? Of course he did. As did every leader before and after him and just like every PM we've ever had. Nobody is perfect.

However, of all the people on this thread who defend Starmer, you are all comfortable with his purging of left wing Jews, and his expulsion of other left wing groups, here is no criticism there. You address the people who supported Corbyn's Danish style socialism as some kind of dangerous sub-group who need to be ejected from the party. None of you have anything to say about his sacking of RLB or the total lack of people from the left on his benches and yet of course you appeal for support from all sides; for a united party. You don't criticise his losing over 150,000 members although like Corbyn before him it is his job to unite the party, and you have nothing to say about the party that was left in rude financial health being on the edge of bankruptcy. Perhaps you will be happy to see big business fill the vacuum in return for favours.

Corbyn ain't the leader anymore but he's certainly a useful distraction device.
Click to expand...

Starmer hasn’t lost 150k members. That was the number at December 2019 - see Anne Blacks NEC meeting notes
 
Lefty said:
The opening post was about Labour expelling four groups from the party and staff cuts.

I'm not happy with staff cuts, but I'm perfectly comfortable with those four groups being thrown out if that is what Starmer wants and the NEC concur.

'Reacting to the vote today, a Jewish Labour Movement spokesperson said: “We welcome this decision and the strong political signal it sends – membership of these groups is incompatible with Labour’s values and its drive to tackle antisemitism in our party.”
Click to expand...
The Jewish Labour Movement are a zionist organisation affiliated with right wing groups like The Board of Deputies, and totally pro Israel/anti Palestine. You said in an earlier post that Corbyn's views on Palestine were sound but it seems that now you are prepared to flip that view because that's what Starmer wants, and to hell with Palestine supporting Jewish groups.

I suppose Starmer has to do something to earn his Zionist funding.
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
The Jewish Labour Movement are a zionist organisation affiliated with right wing groups like The Board of Deputies, and totally pro Israel/anti Palestine. You said in an earlier post that Corbyn's views on Palestine were sound but it seems that now you are prepared to flip that view because that's what Starmer wants, and to hell with Palestine supporting Jewish groups.

I suppose Starmer has to do something to earn his Zionist funding.
Click to expand...

Not this rubbish again.

I do think Corbyn's views on Palestine are sound, but it is about more than that, it is about public perception. The antisemitism issue was handled extremely badly, so now it needs publicly addressing. In a way I hope it kicks off, it might give Starmer his 1985 Kinnock vs Militant/Hatton/Liverpool council moment

 
Lefty said:
The antisemitism issue was handled extremely badly, so now it needs publicly addressing.
Click to expand...
Yes by the executives whose job it was to deal with it but were instead trying to undermine their leader as was revealed in the leaked report. Corbyn actually intervened to speed them up.

However, you have nailed your colours to the zionist mast and I hope you're comfortable with that.
 
Lefty said:
In a way I hope it kicks off, it might give Starmer his 1985 Kinnock vs Militant/Hatton/Liverpool council moment
Click to expand...

Stuff like this is what makes me roll my eyes lefty. One minute you're all about winning elections then suddenly its this garbage about a 1985 "moment". The party were out of power for 12 more years after.

I know they say history repeats itself but I don't think you need to hope it's quite so exact a repeat that Starmer has no other option but to spend a decade starting internal arguments before someone else is allowed to come along and win. He could just have stuck to his pledges and he'd already be doing much better than he is.

As it happens I saw this week Starmers PA let a local paper in Camden know he supports nationalising water. (y) Good to see, hope he says more similar soon. The trouble is after 18 months of going out of his way to attack the left I couldn't really trust him to stick to his word. But hey it's something.
 
Lefty said:
The next election is difficult for Labour to win, but not mathematically lost if there is an alliance. The public are actually leading on this.
Click to expand...
Wiseman_Vaughn said:
But with who? The Lib Dems? How would the left of the party feel about that?
Click to expand...

Labour + Lib Dems won't be anywhere near enough seats to form a government. Especially if Labour are moving centre right and competing more directly with the Lib Dems as it's looked up to now.

Even with an alliance, not sure why anyone would rely on what's left of the Lib Dem vote to back Labour MPs in. Their left leaning supporters deserted them years ago.

Pie in the sky stuff.

Would Starmer do a deal with the SNP? I doubt it.
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
This is a thread about Keir Starmer and his shenanigans. It isn't about Corbyn it's about Starmer, but as usual it always, always comes back to Corbyn. Well Jeremy isn't the leader of the party anymore, and hasn't been for quite some time. Did he have his faults? Of course he did. As did every leader before and after him and just like every PM we've ever had. Nobody is perfect.

However, of all the people on this thread who defend Starmer, you are all comfortable with his purging of left wing Jews, and his expulsion of other left wing groups, here is no criticism there. You address the people who supported Corbyn's Danish style socialism as some kind of dangerous sub-group who need to be ejected from the party. None of you have anything to say about his sacking of RLB or the total lack of people from the left on his benches and yet of course you appeal for support from all sides; for a united party. You don't criticise his losing over 150,000 members although like Corbyn before him it is his job to unite the party, and you have nothing to say about the party that was left in rude financial health being on the edge of bankruptcy. Perhaps you will be happy to see big business fill the vacuum in return for favours.

Corbyn ain't the leader anymore but he's certainly a useful distraction device.
Click to expand...
What's wrong with purging left wing Jews? Or Christians or Muslims. Why did you need to bring the religion into it. On another thread Maz summed up what everyones attitude to religion should be. I am shocked that a leading left winger has such biggotted opinions.

See above in all my time getting bored stupid at labour meetings I never heard any anti seminism.
 
Last edited:
BlindBoyGrunt said:
Yes by the executives whose job it was to deal with it but were instead trying to undermine their leader as was revealed in the leaked report. Corbyn actually intervened to speed them up.

However, you have nailed your colours to the zionist mast and I hope you're comfortable with that.
Click to expand...

Have I?

I think not, but you have absolutely demonstrated exactly what we’ve been saying, you’d rather attack others on the left, quite nastily in fact, for not being left enough, than actually be serious about winning.

The rest of the country got a completely different message from Corbyn on antisemitism than you trawling through minutiae and that is his and his teams fault. When it came to the actual politics, Corbyn, Milne & co. played the game like petulant naive children.
 
MolteniArcore said:
And with how abhorrent the current administration are you'd think it would be simple...
Click to expand...
You would think so. I suspect there is quite a large contingent in the UK that actually believe that the disabled and unemployed are lazy and steal enough from their tax, to be a financial burden on us.

The difference between most voters, the common man, is the amount of social support each of us thinks is appropriate. Most voters don't think along lines of, power, health and education shouldn't be run for profit. It probably never crosses their minds. If a working class guy who can keep his family and his home and has never been out of work or gone to a food bank, may well think that anyone who can't do those things is lazy, spends what little income they do have on fags and beer and chooses to let his family starve. That opinion is difficult to change so you have to be more moderate in your policies to get those voters on board. The ones who think, some social safety net is important, but let's not feed and house the feckless.

Politics has to be boiled down to those terms for most people. They are not stupid, just not interested. It's why, during an election campaign and the mockers are put on right wing reporting, the labour party always close the gap to the tories.
 
I agree with most of that, but I doubt most people decry disabled people their benefits.

I find the motorbility scheme a bit odd. A good initial idea taken over by the major manufacturers. It holds billions in its balance sheet, with the directors earning fortunes.
 
free_pint said:
Bit hard when they're being purged from the party..

Don't forget and I will continue to shout this the right of the party DID NOT support the party when Corbyn was in charge. They actively campaigned against the party daily.

I also can't support any party that has brought Peter 'I will undermine Corbyn every single day and Epstein is a good guy' Mandelson back into the party.
Click to expand...
And your attitude helps the NHS, grow a pair. Any labour vote is better than the alternative.

I voted for Corbyn who I thought was a prat, but labour first for me.
 
Same_as_before said:
I agree with most of that, but I doubt most people decry disabled people their benefits.

I find the motorbility scheme a bit odd. A good initial idea taken over by the major manufacturers. It holds billions in its balance sheet, with the directors earning fortunes.
Click to expand...
I know nothing about this scheme I may have to do a bit of reading.
 
Lefty said:
you have absolutely demonstrated exactly what we’ve been saying, you’d rather attack others on the left, quite nastily in fact
Click to expand...
I really don't know what you are alluding to here; perhaps you can point me to which posts contain nastiness on my part.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top