Kwarteng

Can't see them having the moral fibre to call an election - so it will be more Truss , or a rearranging of the chairs on the decks of the UK economy
 
exiledinboro said:
If you conclude brexit is to blame for everything then you literally will not be able to interpret events as they happen
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Like it or not the reason we have this mob in power at all is largely due to a sequence of events precipitated by Cameron's attempt to solve the "Europ question" that threatened to tear the Conservative Party in two. It looks very much like he has just delayed the inevitable. So whilst these events are not directly caused by "Brexit" they are just part of the inevitable but avoidable consequences of that vote.
 
exiledinboro said:
Not eveything is because or even relevant to brexit

He's gone because he just made unfunded tax cuts and Truss then said in parliament she won't make any service cuts which shows that she is not inteligent enough to answer questions

Which in turn is part of the reason the Tories still know that their best bet is to remove her as well because as well as being dangerous to trust the economy she is still a liability

If you conclude brexit is to blame for everything then you literally will not be able to interpret events as they happen. Like now
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You'd have point if I did conclude Brexit was to blame for everything. You'd have a point if I concluded Brexit was solely to blame for anything.

Brexit was a pivotal point, a seismic moment, that has been the single most important factor leading to where we are now. You'd know that if you'd understood Brexit properly.

Rather than oppose me on this, why not try and be charitable, why not consider things a little deeper and try and find a path in reverse from where we are now and the factors that have led to it?

Why did Truss make the decisions she has?
Why is she and the people around her even there to make these decisions?
Who does she listen to?
Why does she listen to them?

Could this have happened six years ago?
 
Lefty said:
Could this have happened six years ago?
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The Tories have been in power for 12 years. Their ideology doesn't work so yes, I think had they had 12 years to govern then they would have ended up in this situation anyway. This is what happens with Tory governments if they keep going until they eat themselves. None of the recent catastrophic failures are Brexit related. They are Tory related. They have ran out of competent people, not that they started with many, so they are left with the dregs of the party. The half-sensible lot are staying on the back benches where it is safe.

Truss took over and had 1 major issue to try and sort which was energy. She's ran full steam ahead with Tory 101 ideology and created such a trainwreck that energy doesn't even get a mention anymore.

*I'm assuming you mean could this have happened if Brexit hadn't happened rather than 6 years ago specifically.
 
Pak_Doo_Ik said:
Oh the pain of children growing up means you can no longer watch certain programmes. What I'd give to be able watch Octonauts or In the Night Garden, rather than listen to some loud mouth cockney opening fifa cards!!!
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The episode with the flying fish with a Geordie accent is one of the greatest pieces of modern popular culture in existence
 
The_Unicorn said:
Rumour is they intend to install Sunak based on him being runner up.
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He would have no authority either from public, or tory voters to govern. Pressure would be enormous for a GE, failure to do so would lead to a view that they are clinging on against the public wishes and that is the death knell for them
 
Nano said:
The Tories have been in power for 12 years. Their ideology doesn't work so yes, I think had they had 12 years to govern then they would have ended up in this situation anyway. This is what happens with Tory governments if they keep going until they eat themselves. None of the recent catastrophic failures are Brexit related. They are Tory related. They have ran out of competent people, not that they started with many, so they are left with the dregs of the party. The half-sensible lot are staying on the back benches where it is safe.

Truss took over and had 1 major issue to try and sort which was energy. She's ran full steam ahead with Tory 101 ideology and created such a trainwreck that energy doesn't even get a mention anymore.

*I'm assuming you mean could this have happened if Brexit hadn't happened rather than 6 years ago specifically.
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It is Tory related. It is because of an unworkable ideology. It is because they have run out of competent people.

Brexit was a Tory project, born out of an ideological struggle within the Conservative Party and those in the country outside the Conservative Party, but very much part of the Right. There were/are also influencers from outside this country. Putin on the one hand was only too happy to support any movement that destabilised and weakened the West, the EU and NATO. However there are very rich, global/American influencers on the Libertarian Far Right for whom Brexit was an opportunity to implement their ideology. They funded it, they supported it, they brought their influence to deliver it. Once they had it, they used it to exploit their influence ever further to impose their low tax, low regulation Freeports and Singapore on Thames. They won/bought control of the Conservative Party.

There are many Conservatives, those One Nation Tories harking back to to the traditions of the likes of Burke and Disraeli, who do not recognise this current Conservative Party. These were the so called 'wets' as Margaret Thatcher labelled them. They are characteristically cautious, prudent and pragmatic. They used to keep the extremists on the Right of the Party largely in check, mostly with the threat that their policies would lead to the Party losing power, which let's face it is the overarching aim of that Party. Despite Thatcher's 'wet' insult she kept them in cabinet and listened to them. She was far more 'wet' than she pretended. The problem is she became a god and the Tories believe the myth not the reality. Not only that, she had a huge influence on America and Reaganomics and that in turn influences the UK. She really does still have a lot to answer for.

People have ideologies, on the Left and the Right. When they are centrist rather than extreme, or don't go on too long, they can be fine. The only ideology we should adhere to is one of empiricism ie put what works, evidence based, above any other beautiful, theoretical, ideology.

What we are experiencing now, post Brexit, is a Conservative ideology, but not the only one. It was not the dominant one under Cameron (austerity for a while was reasonable and sensible, but it was a mistake, perhaps ideologically driven, to deepen and prolong it as they did). This extreme Libertarian ideology couldn't have happened under Cameron, a moderate chosen by a moderate Party. Nor would the financial conditions have been so volatile and risky were we still part of the EU and not isolated as we are. The world had confidence in the UK. It lost it following Brexit and every decision we made thereafter. Confidence is just crucial to growth and no investor has confidence in these loons.

Brexit was necessary to deliver this current Conservative Party and it's extreme Right Libertarian ideology. This was the goal of those behind Brexit. It facilitated, enabled, the libertarian hard right to seize control of the Party, the membership, the funding, the advisors and think tanks, the media narrative and it vanquished the opposition. Direct line from Brexit to this shambles.

There are few competent Conservatives left because most have been driven out. It doesn't matter how intelligent you think you are, when powerful gut feelings trump your intelligence, you're stupid.

There isn't one of us that isn't sometimes a slave to these instincts. Instincts are powerful for a reason. They are heuristics, short cuts, to give us as a species, the best chance of surviving and passing on our genes. They aren't necessarily the best for basing complicated 21st century political issues on. Left and Right are both equally capable of this stupidity depending on the issue. These Conservative MP's do seem to be particularly certain of themselves and arrogant, don't you think?

Hey Eton, it's all very well giving unbridled enthusiasm and belief to writers, actors, artists etc, but when it comes to egomaniacs that already have ambition, beyond their ability, to run a country, maybe knock them down before they knock the country down. Same to you Oxford PPE professors.

As for us voters, perhaps we should look into things a bit more and when we find out these people don't actually know what they are talking about, or are liars and corrupt, maybe don't reward them with votes.

It just encourages them and reinforces their belief that everything they do or think is right.
 
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