Keir Starmer giving Johnson another tough time at PMQ’s

Baggins said:
Look at it another way, the public seemingly admire that Boris admits his faults. All Starmer did was give him the chance to show he is human, again, which Boris did. Starmer gained nothing and that will soon be forgot.
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How many faults must a man admit to (and, again, in the case of the care homes comment he hasn't admitted to his fault he has tried to disguise his lie during PMQs) before he appears input to govern. As you say, the faults of Johnson, both as a human being and as a politician, are plain to see yet he still has support. This is due to the whole personality being more important than policy that pervades in modern politics. I dearly hope this changes.
 
Baggins said:
Look at it another way, the public seemingly admire that Boris admits his faults. All Starmer did was give him the chance to show he is human, again, which Boris did. Starmer gained nothing and that will soon be forgot.
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It is a fine balance isn't it really. A 'spat' played out in PMQs attracts the attention of a few of us nerdy types and, I agree, lacks real impact.
I do fall between two stools thinking he isn't being tough enough but acknowledge how easy it is to get this more wrong (if that's the right phrase) too.
The interesting point for me is that in the last few weeks The Daily Mail, Telegraph and Times have all given Starmer a pretty good hearing. Similar Kuensberg last night over PMQ's.
This will inevitably lead to claims of 'Tory Lite'; 'Centrist'.
No matter really, for me at least. You can have a minor impact from the back benches but a major one in power.
 
SuperStu said:
I never understand why people have such a problem with party politics. How else could governance possibly happen?
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Because as both sides keep telling us, now is not the time for party politics. As with most things though, its only acceptable when it's going one way.
 
1finny said:
It is a fine balance isn't it really. A 'spat' played out in PMQs attracts the attention of a few of us nerdy types and, I agree, lacks real impact.
I do fall between two stools thinking he isn't being tough enough but acknowledge how easy it is to get this more wrong (if that's the right phrase) too.
The interesting point for me is that in the last few weeks The Daily Mail, Telegraph and Times have all given Starmer a pretty good hearing. Similar Kuensberg last night over PMQ's.
This will inevitably lead to claims of 'Tory Lite'; 'Centrist'.
No matter really, for me at least. You can have a minor impact from the back benches but a major one in power.
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I'm in exactly the same situation as you, it is a very fine line indeed. The fact he is making the points and having them accepted is good. I just think for the sake of a couple more sentences it could have much more impact,

As a very crude/simplistic example; "glad we are on the same page Boris, we have to work together, what is going to change to ensure front line workers aren't unnecessarily endangered again? Have you considered a cross parliamentary task force to review this, we would be glad to help or take the lead on this"
 
The tories are desperate to paint labour and starmer in particular as the enemy within to paint them as anti british and being as the villain of The crisis. With Corbyn this was easy as he played the role of pantomime villain to a T but starmer is far more astute than this.

Ie

example; "glad we are on the same page Boris, we have to work together, what is going to change to ensure front line workers aren't unnecessarily endangered again?


Starmer is not up against Boris he’s up against Cummins.
 
uncle_rico said:
Because as both sides keep telling us, now is not the time for party politics. As with most things though, its only acceptable when it's going one way.
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That's like listening to footballers/football managers interviews though. "It's always difficult coming to play against [insert any team name]". "We've been working hard in training all week and next week we'll work hard in training again".

When would a politician ever come out and say now's the perfect time for a bit of "party politics"? If a person has joined a political party, been elected to represent that party, risen to the rank of leader, it would be pretty weird if they didn't think that party was a vehicle for some sort of good. I just don't see how you can ever expect a politician to avoid painting their own party in a good light, and their political opponents less favourably. What would the alternative even look like?
 
zorro_mfc said:
The tories are desperate to paint labour and starmer in particular as the enemy within to paint them as anti british and being as the villain of The crisis. With Corbyn this was easy as he played the role of pantomime villain to a T but starmer is far more astute than this.

Ie

example; "glad we are on the same page Boris, we have to work together, what is going to change to ensure front line workers aren't unnecessarily endangered again?


Starmer is not up against Boris he’s up against Cummins.
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Fair point.

Question though on the last point; do you think joe public see that? A large number of whom either don't understand or care about the minutiae of parliament and rely on social media for their "politics".
 
1finny said:
This will inevitably lead to claims of 'Tory Lite'; 'Centrist'.
No matter really, for me at least. You can have a minor impact from the back benches but a major one in power.
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Not an ideal situation if you don't want either a Tory or a Tory Lite government in power though.
 
SuperStu said:
That's like listening to footballers/football managers interviews though. "It's always difficult coming to play against [insert any team name]". "We've been working hard in training all week and next week we'll work hard in training again".

When would a politician ever come out and say now's the perfect time for a bit of "party politics"? If a person has joined a political party, been elected to represent that party, risen to the rank of leader, it would be pretty weird if they didn't think that party was a vehicle for some sort of good. I just don't see how you can ever expect a politician to avoid painting their own party in a good light, and their political opponents less favourably. What would the alternative even look like?
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It's a fine line and I don't think that Starmer has crossed it.

Mr Blackford from the SNP is an example of someone who probably has.
 
Openly lying seems to be the go to tactic for Johnson (well if Trump can do it) he probably thinks if I can get away with lying to the Queen I can get away with it with anyone 🤔 hopefully people are just going to get sick of it eventually, and you need quite a good memory to lie effectively. I think Starmer has his number ✔️



🐔
 
Baggins said:
Mr Blackwell from the SNP is an example of someone who probably has.
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And why shouldn't he?

I've no reason to doubt Blackford doesn't genuinely believe Scotland would be better off independent and without a UK tory gov. Why shouldn't he point out every tory failing and claim the SNP do/would make better decisions?

Similarly I've no reason to doubt Starmer and Boris don't both genuinely think their respective parties form the better governments (for whatever reasons) so why shouldn't they push for that outcome?

It's a completely meaningless criticism to say that a politician is engaging in party politics IMO.
 
SuperStu said:
And why shouldn't he?

I've no reason to doubt Blackford doesn't genuinely believe Scotland would be better off independent and without a UK tory gov. Why shouldn't he point out every tory failing and claim the SNP do/would make better decisions?

Similarly I've no reason to doubt Starmer and Boris don't both genuinely think their respective parties form the better governments (for whatever reasons) so why shouldn't they push for that outcome?

It's a completely meaningless criticism to say that a politician is engaging in party politics IMO.
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You caught my mistake before the edit with Blackford's name, for some reason I used the umpire's name. Must be cricket season pining :LOL:
 
Meanwhile on Twitter, three Tory MPs have retweeted a video edited by an Alt-Right nutjob purporting to show Starmer failing to protect Child Abuse victims (the opposite of course of the truth)

Maria Caulfield, Lucy Allan and (quelle surprise) Nadine Dorries, the first two have subsequently deleted their Twitter accounts and Dorries has deleted the tweet, none have apologised. The Alt-Right nutjob has also deleted his/her account. No one has apologised.
 
SuperStu said:
Because Kuenssberg has shown what she's all about for years. If she's throwing her weight behind Starmer it suggests (to me at least) that he's a tory in disguise. She wouldn't back him otherwise.
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Or it could be that Boris has stopped answering her late night booty calls now's he's a Dad and engaged (again).

Hell what am I saying ? Like that would stop him . 😅
 
The day after Starmer was appointed a rank Tory and Brexiter colleague of mine at work casually mentioned that he was associated with child abuse. That’s obviously going to be the tactic to try to run him down.

And the more he embarrasses Johnson, which seems to be a regular occurrence, the more we can expect to hear it.

Labour just need to keep drawing attention to the coronavirus debacle which has happened on Johnson’s watch. Government approval ratings are in sharp decline according to latest You Gov polling.
 
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