Joy Division v The Smiths

indeedido said:
Nobody is saying other popular music can't be liked.
The thread was comparing two bands of significance to a lot of people judging by the responses on it.
TSAB popped up with a ludicrous comparison to the Spice Girls, to which you seem to have seen the need to build on.

It's like comparing Viduka to Boksic and then somebody saying yeah but what about Barry Robson, he was great.
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That was a joke, sorry I have to explain that.
 
indeedido said:
It's like comparing Viduka to Boksic and then somebody saying yeah but what about Barry Robson, he was great.
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I'd say it's like that, but then people refusing to admit that Barry Robson was also a good footballer, whilst not perhaps being as good / cultured / appreciated as the former two.

There's plenty of threads that stray from their original topic, apologies if you wanted to keep it 100% focused on the OP's question of one versus the other.
 
Same_as_before said:
If I wanted to be miserable I would go and watch Sunderland. It's one of the many bands who I think are overrated pap. A poor man's Leonard Cohen. That's the Smith's not the Beatles, the song writers for the Spice Girls were better, and that's pap too
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Never in a million years would I think of comparing The Smiths with Leonard Cohen - one a 4 piece guitar/bass/drums/vocals band the other solo artist using what ever musicians he thinks he needs. Sound wise they couldn't be further apart.

That's just my opinion though and as I've said many times on this board in music threads there's no right or wrongs when it comes to musical tastes.
Same_as_before said:
They were both at their best during my younger days, so yes I have listened to them, far too much in the Smith's case. I would not cross the street to watch them, awful dirge, about as good as his political beliefs
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The Smiths were active from 82 -87 releasing 4 albums and touring extensively. Leonard Cohen released two albums in 84 & 88.

You say they were both at their best in your younger days which presumably is 82-87, I don't think anyone would class that as LC's best period.

You say The Smiths were at their best but dismiss them as an awful dirge and pap - which songs or albums do you think are their best then and do you actually like them or just think they are the best of a bad bunch?
 
I was 21 in 1982. It was a group I listened too unfortunately when they were on the radio or TV. Not for me. Awful miserable pap.

If you want my likes: Erasure, Pet Shop Boys, The Jam, Mark Almond, Rod Stewart, to be fair only later in life Cohen, ELP and to really p u off I like Cilla singing ballods.
 
Same_as_before said:
I was 21 in 1982. It was a group I listened too unfortunately when they were on the radio or TV. Not for me. Awful miserable pap.

If you want my likes: Erasure, Pet Shop Boys, The Jam, Mark Almond, Rod Stewart, to be fair only later in life Cohen, ELP and to really p u off I like Cilla singing ballods.
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As I said there's no right or wrongs when it comes to musical tastes - people like what they like. You can't say X is better than Y because there's no measure, you can say X is more successful than Y because they sold more records but that's nothing to do with taste. If you like something you like it, that's all there is to it.

However to dismiss something as an awful dirge or pap is fine but that's only your opinion, one formed by listening to them on the radio or TV - it's difficult for me to get my head around it as I was 19 for most of 82 and I loved The Smiths.

I maybe wrong but I'd wager you've never sat and listened to a Smiths LP and your opinion isn't really based on their true musical output but only on a few songs you've heard on the radio/TV. Even if you've listened to everything they've ever done and do think their songs are an awful dirge (I'd love to know which one?) and pap as I said it's only your opinion one not shared by many others.
 
Same_as_before said:
If you want my likes: Erasure, Pet Shop Boys, The Jam, Mark Almond, Rod Stewart, to be fair only later in life Cohen, ELP and to really p u off I like Cilla singing ballods.
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Morrissey would approve, he's a massive fan of Cilla and a lot of the other similar acts of the time such as Twinkle (of Golden Lights fame) and Sandie Shaw (famously sang with The Smiths on Hand in Glove) etc
 
The Smiths for me, Marr is a godlike genius, Morrisey the devil on his shoulder.

Absolutely love a bit of Joy Division too, in fact I bought this from Peter Hook, although he used it touring as New Order, but same thing really. I'd love to pair it with one of Johnny Marr's own Jaguars, but that might be out of my price range
bass.jpg
 
DCI_Gene_Hunt said:
As I said there's no right or wrongs when it comes to musical tastes - people like what they like. You can't say X is better than Y because there's no measure, you can say X is more successful than Y because they sold more records but that's nothing to do with taste. If you like something you like it, that's all there is to it.

However to dismiss something as an awful dirge or pap is fine but that's only your opinion, one formed by listening to them on the radio or TV - it's difficult for me to get my head around it as I was 19 for most of 82 and I loved The Smiths.

I maybe wrong but I'd wager you've never sat and listened to a Smiths LP and your opinion isn't really based on their true musical output but only on a few songs you've heard on the radio/TV. Even if you've listened to everything they've ever done and do think their songs are an awful dirge (I'd love to know which one?) and pap as I said it's only your opinion one not shared by many others.
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True I haven't, might try it on Amazon Music in the car, see if I get past 2 songs.

The OP was about two groups. In my view one entertains, the other one toned poetry. I doubt anyone and I mean anyone listens to the lyrics at a concert.


The best act I ever saw was Rory Gallagher, I had no idea what he was singing about.
 
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DCI_Gene_Hunt said:
As I said there's no right or wrongs when it comes to musical tastes - people like what they like. You can't say X is better than Y because there's no measure, you can say X is more successful than Y because they sold more records but that's nothing to do with taste. If you like something you like it, that's all there is to it.

However to dismiss something as an awful dirge or pap is fine but that's only your opinion, one formed by listening to them on the radio or TV - it's difficult for me to get my head around it as I was 19 for most of 82 and I loved The Smiths.

I maybe wrong but I'd wager you've never sat and listened to a Smiths LP and your opinion isn't really based on their true musical output but only on a few songs you've heard on the radio/TV. Even if you've listened to everything they've ever done and do think their songs are an awful dirge (I'd love to know which one?) and pap as I said it's only your opinion one not shared by many others.
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Exactly, spot on DCI, certain people take it to serious, personally I would close the curtains if either were playing in my garden

Though I wouldnt be very happy mind theyd ruin the grass 😊
 
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BoroMart said:
The Smiths for me, Marr is a godlike genius, Morrisey the devil on his shoulder.

Absolutely love a bit of Joy Division too, in fact I bought this from Peter Hook, although he used it touring as New Order, but same thing really. I'd love to pair it with one of Johnny Marr's own Jaguars, but that might be out of my price range
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Did you get it in his auction or from him direct?

how much if you don't mind telling?
 
Same_as_before said:
True I haven't, might try it on Amazon Music in the car, see if I get past 2 songs.

The OP was about two groups. In my view one entertains, the other one toned poetry. I doubt anyone and I mean anyone listens to the lyrics at a concert.


The best act I ever saw was Rory Gallagher, I had no idea what he was singing about.
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It's not just about lyrics though is it, certainly not live, it's the whole connection with the band for me.

Best band I've ever seen live (and ever will) are The Clash.
 
DCI_Gene_Hunt said:
Did you get it in his auction or from him direct?

how much if you don't mind telling?
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auction, it was 950 under the hammer, but auction fees and delivery took it to 1300.

Bit of a bargain really as second hand they are going for about 1,000-1,200 anyway. Plays beautifully and that quilt top is stunning. Came with a battered flight case with the last sticker still on it, a concert in russia.
 
BoroMart said:
auction, it was 950 under the hammer, but auction fees and delivery took it to 1300.

Bit of a bargain really as second hand they are going for about 1,000-1,200 anyway. Plays beautifully and that quilt top is stunning. Came with a battered flight case with the last sticker still on it, a concert in russia.
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Wow those fees are extensive! It's a great story and something really good to pull out and impress people with - he's seems to be a bit skint and selling everything off recently. I've seen a few auctions of his stuff advertised.
 
DCI_Gene_Hunt said:
Wow those fees are extensive! It's a great story and something really good to pull out and impress people with - he's seems to be a bit skint and selling everything off recently. I've seen a few auctions of his stuff advertised.
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Yes I missed his Joy Division sale. I think it's partly skint and partly the acrimony with the rest of his band mates. I think it gives him bad vibes seeing all this stuff that is part of his life he wants to put behind him. If I remember correctly the auction I bought this at he raised well over 350k before fees, as you say he's had several so probably pulled in a couple of mill
 
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