Jonathan Woodgate

Ex Footy Legs said:
Disagree - Mowbray was given nothing.

Woodgate is part of the problem because he is clueless and we all know it so Carrick needs to start with him
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These posts only appear when we lose though. He was here when we were flying last season.

This is the issue with this message board - people pick and choose without really knowing what’s happening behind the scenes. This goes on with signings; ‘he didn’t sign him, Gill bought him, Bausor pulled the plug, it’s his signing,’ - it’s the same with Woodgate here IMO.

Without knowing who does what on the training field, I would find it really difficult to single out an individual. Especially if I’m only looking to single them out when things are going badly.

For me the most pressing issue is senior players not stepping up and showing the desire to be hard to break down/beat. The players must surely be able to step up and block off the spaces in midfield. It shouldn’t take Carrick or Woodgate to tell them to stay compact for 10-15mins. If it does then we have far, far deeper problems than worrying about assistant coaches.
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
These posts only appear when we lose though. He was here when we were flying last season.

This is the issue with this message board - people pick and choose without really knowing what’s happening behind the scenes. This goes on with signings; ‘he didn’t sign him, Gill bought him, Bausor pulled the plug, it’s his signing,’ - it’s the same with Woodgate here IMO.

Without knowing who does what on the training field, I would find it really difficult to single out an individual. Especially if I’m only looking to single them out when things are going badly.

For me the most pressing issue is senior players not stepping up and showing the desire to be hard to break down/beat. The players must surely be able to step up and block off the spaces in midfield. It shouldn’t take Carrick or Woodgate to tell them to stay compact for 10-15mins. If it does then we have far, far deeper problems than worrying about assistant coaches.
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Whilst I agree with most of this, ultimately it’s the manager’s job to motivate players, if Gibson/Scott/Bausor have been honest with him from the off they’ll have told him to never whinge about signings as his remit is only to worry about the first team playing staff.

I feel for Carrick as tbh I don’t think he himself knows why it has all gone Pete Tong since April, sure the players may not be as good as last season (pre-Christmas) but we’re only really missing Akpom and Giles of any note, we shouldn’t be 24th.

I’m more than happy to give him most of the season to figure it out though, and I back him to. Can’t see the merit in sacking Woodgate just as some kind of PR gesture.
 
atypical_boro said:
Whilst I agree with most of this, ultimately it’s the manager’s job to motivate players, if Gibson/Scott/Bausor have been honest with him from the off they’ll have told him to never whinge about signings as his remit is only to worry about the first team playing staff.

I feel for Carrick as tbh I don’t think he himself knows why it has all gone Pete Tong since April, sure the players may not be as good as last season (pre-Christmas) but we’re only really missing Akpom and Giles of any note, we shouldn’t be 24th.

I’m more than happy to give him most of the season to figure it out though, and I back him to. Can’t see the merit in sacking Woodgate just as some kind of PR gesture.
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I broadly agree but I do think sometimes players have to step up.

I appreciate I’m going back here but the Boro teams I remember were full of players who appeared to need little or no motivation. Rioch, Lawrence, Robson, McClaren. Even more recently, I can’t imagine Aitor had to motivate Leadbitter or Clayton or Gibson or Friend very much.

And for all of this talk, it’s probably as simple as this - we’ve lost around 50 goals from last season’s team. Put Archer or Akpom in for any of this season’s games and some of the chances we’ve missed would’ve been buried and things are very different.

The replacements aren’t as good. Yet. Which is the key factor I suppose. We either wait for them to ‘come good’ or we change the manager again. Again.
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
the Boro teams I remember were full of players who appeared to need little or no motivation. Rioch, Lawrence, Robson, McClaren. Even more recently, I can’t imagine Aitor had to motivate Leadbitter or Clayton or Gibson or Friend very much.

And for all of this talk, it’s probably as simple as this - we’ve lost around 50 goals from last season’s team. Put Archer or Akpom in for any of this season’s games and some of the chances we’ve missed would’ve been buried and things are very different.

The replacements aren’t as good. Yet. Which is the key factor I suppose. We either wait for them to ‘come good’ or we change the manager again. Again.
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I think they were just good managers (at least when they were here). I don’t remember anyone saying Leadbitter and Friend were trying their best when we were flunking under Mowbray.

But yes, our front 4 is nowhere near last season’s standard and the team has struggled to adapt without them. Akpom is a brilliant example of how players may look rubbish one month and then like a world beater the next, depending on what motivational techniques a manager or coach may be using on them.

I fully agree players should look at themselves individually but the problem with that is that if they don’t, as a collective, there is little else clubs can do but change the whole setup.
 
atypical_boro said:
I think they were just good managers (at least when they were here). I don’t remember anyone saying Leadbitter and Friend were trying their best when we were flunking under Mowbray.

But yes, our front 4 is nowhere near last season’s standard and the team has struggled to adapt without them. Akpom is a brilliant example of how players may look rubbish one month and then like a world beater the next, depending on what motivational techniques a manager or coach may be using on them.

I fully agree players should look at themselves individually but the problem with that is that if they don’t, as a collective, there is little else clubs can do but change the whole setup.
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All good points TBF.

I remember posting on the thread about Wilder being sacked last October - “can’t wait to do this all again next October,” and to be honest as mad as it would’ve seemed just a few weeks ago, I am fully expecting that to happen. Carrick will probably be gone in October if we don’t win at least 2 or 3 of the next 6 or 7 games.
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
All good points TBF.

I remember posting on the thread about Wilder being sacked last October - “can’t wait to do this all again next October,” and to be honest as mad as it would’ve seemed just a few weeks ago, I am fully expecting that to happen. Carrick will probably be gone in October if we don’t win at least 2 or 3 of the next 6 or 7 games.
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Yes it’s quite possible. I hope it doesn’t, because I can’t face someone coming in with another rescue job and another false dawn. I’d rather finish 21st and plod on purely out of principle, the “change manager every 18 months” approach isn’t taking us to the PL.

I’m just not sure our fans have the patience.
 
atypical_boro said:
Yes it’s quite possible. I hope it doesn’t, because I can’t face someone coming in with another rescue job and another false dawn. I’d rather finish 21st and plod on purely out of principle, the “change manager every 18 months” approach isn’t taking us to the PL.

I’m just not sure our fans have the patience.
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Also worth thinking about this - is it not part of the ‘model’ to develop your coach as well? I mean, if you lose a dozen games in a row 4-0 it’s probably going to end up in a sacking but you’d think it’s worth supporting a young coach through a bad patch because that would, in theory, make them stronger. Getting rid at the first sign of trouble just seems way too easy IMO.
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
For me the most pressing issue is senior players not stepping up and showing the desire to be hard to break down/beat.
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I don't agree that is the most pressing issue.
It is an issue, but we have rather a lot.
Some it would seem that we are unable to raise thoroughly on here - Gibson, Scott/recruitment, squad quality...

I agree that sacking Carrick would simply make a scapegoat of him, deflecting from the bigger problems at our club.
Michael may have made some strange looking decisions and should not be beyond criticism, but taking this squad forward is not going to be a walk in the park for anyone.
My fear is that he who can't be spoken of at the top of the club, will protect Scott, sacrifice Carrick and put Woodgate in place again declaring he had considered all the available options.
He's certainly got form for it.
 
indeedido said:
I don't agree that is the most pressing issue.
It is an issue, but we have rather a lot.
Some it would seem that we are unable to raise thoroughly on here - Gibson, Scott/recruitment, squad quality...

I agree that sacking Carrick would simply make a scapegoat of him, deflecting from the bigger problems at our club.
Michael may have made some strange looking decisions and should not be beyond criticism, but taking this squad forward is not going to be a walk in the park for anyone.
My fear is that he who can't be spoken of at the top of the club, will protect Scott, sacrifice Carrick and put Woodgate in place again declaring he had considered all the available options.
He's certainly got form for it.
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You keep saying the chairman and Scott can’t be criticised but the board is absolutely littered with criticism of them. They’re being absolutely slaughtered.

And people were saying this last year as well, the terror of him appointing Cattermole or O’Neil or Rob Edwards. He didn’t do any of those things and two of them have actually gone on to do pretty well for themselves since then.
 
newyddion said:
We just couldn’t hear the Woodgate’s our brigade over the success the club was enjoying.
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I’ve never changed my view on him.

You bring in a rookie manager.

Do you give him an experienced coach of some quality to support and develop him?

No, you give him the proven failure that is Woodgate.

Parochial nonsense.
 
Mwelolo said:
I’ve never changed my view on him.

You bring in a rookie manager.

Do you give him an experienced coach of some quality to support and develop him?

No, you give him the proven failure that is Woodgate.

Parochial nonsense.
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Yet people still praise Pullis for the results he brought in.. who was his assistant again? Who won manager of the month in his first.. 3 months was it? Who did Bournemouth opt for as their manager? Who was our assistant last season when we made the play offs?

What does failure look like?

I’ve said I think bringing Steve Round in as assistant manager would be a great idea. We have had a huge turnover of players and it’s a lot for a rookie manager to take on.. especially with injuries.

Woodgate should be able to recognise what is going wrong having seen it twice before.. snd between him, Danksy and Carrick I think they can cook up a nee secret sauce using the ingredients that we have left over.

Can’t Cook.. Won’t Cook!
 
newyddion said:
Yet people still praise Pullis for the results he brought in.. who was his assistant again? Who won manager of the month in his first.. 3 months was it? Who did Bournemouth opt for as their manager? Who was our assistant last season when we made the play offs?

What does failure look like?

I’ve said I think bringing Steve Round in as assistant manager would be a great idea. We have had a huge turnover of players and it’s a lot for a rookie manager to take on.. especially with injuries.

Woodgate should be able to recognise what is going wrong having seen it twice before.. snd between him, Danksy and Carrick I think they can cook up a nee secret sauce using the ingredients that we have left over.

Can’t Cook.. Won’t Cook!
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What does failure look like?

Woodgate’s tenure as our manager.
 
Not having your better players in the starting XI is inexplicable, given our start/form.
A 20 year old Dutch CH at right back...with Isaiah Jones on the bench, McGree on the bench, O'brien playing on the left etc etc.
Get back to basics, work harder for each other, build a platform.
We lack organisation, fitness, intensity.
Not helped by that bizarre line-up yesterday and really concerning to me, was that the much vaunted international break has seen us return even more muddled and half-baked.
Something has to give and I think it'll be sooner rather than later.
 
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