It’s looking like a potential landslide victory for Joe Biden

Hey dress it up however you want I'm just saying he was objectively a bad president which he was.
Ticker claimed the ACA was a good thing when it was a complete failure. 👍🏻

‘objectively’?

How can an overall judgement like that be objective? There must be some criteria.
 
History, or at least the way its recorded, is always influenced by opinion - thats why historians spend so much time arguing about the facts.

But I defy anyone to argue that history will not reflect the Trump presidency as an all time low for American politics.
 
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History, or at least the way its recorded, is always influenced by opinion - thats why historians spend so much time arguing about the facts.

But I defy anyway to argue that history will not reflect the Trump presidency as an all time low for American politics.

Just whatever you do... Don't say he is objectively terrible. 😉

Look @Lefty I wanted Obama to be legit. I have a copy of the audacity of hope on my bookshelf (asked mum to get me it for Christmas when it was released), I believed in him and I'm not angry, just disappointed he did the opposite of everything he said he was going to do when he first campaigned.

The most damning indictment of Obama is Donald Trump.
 
I'd say that is the damning indictment of racism in america, but hey

I'm not sure about that, Obama - Trump voters were the key swing demographic..

I don't think most Americans are racist (I mean Obama was black and president) unlike their law enforcement.
 
Minorities will always have their views and feel the bias towards white society both here and the States, the white majority in both countries will always be pandered to.

PR is the only way to get a fairness from a Govt, and our UKIP Tories wont relinquish that without a fight.
A civil rights movement is now the way forward They now want to be heard and demand fairness for their taxes, the shots are across the bow.
 
History, or at least the way its recorded, is always influenced by opinion - thats why historians spend so much time arguing about the facts.

But I defy anyone to argue that history will not reflect the Trump presidency as an all time low for American politics.
You must obviously not be aware of how many truly terrible Presidents the US has had.
 
Yes, even despite the shamefully low water mark history will see Trump as unique.
Trump is far from unique. Many Presidents have been appallingly racist (including fighting for slavery to continue) and some utterly corrupt. Trump's utter incompetence has limited the damage he could have done and what damage he's done can be reversed by his successors.
 
Trump is far from unique. Many Presidents have been appallingly racist (including fighting for slavery to continue) and some utterly corrupt. Trump's utter incompetence has limited the damage he could have done and what damage he's done can be reversed by his successors.
I think his uniqueness is multi-layered and whilst some have fallen short in certain areas, his story is unprecedented.
 
No, he's still very much in the race.. a month prior to voting.. he can start a phoney conflict.. Nationalism will power through & the bigot will win again.. Thatcher showed with Falklands what a little conflict & overzealous patriotism can do to refocus voters minds..
 
Just whatever you do... Don't say he is objectively terrible. 😉

Look @Lefty I wanted Obama to be legit. I have a copy of the audacity of hope on my bookshelf (asked mum to get me it for Christmas when it was released), I believed in him and I'm not angry, just disappointed he did the opposite of everything he said he was going to do when he first campaigned.

The most damning indictment of Obama is Donald Trump.

If you are saying Donald Trump is the most damning indictment of Obama then you must mean that Trump is worse?

The thing is to say someone is an objectively bad President needs some values or context.

For instance you could say he failed to meet his promises and that is the criteria on which to judge him, but is that really fair when a President can only do so much and is reliant on Congress and many other factors. Compromise is sometimes necessary. In addition, as Macmillan reportedly put it 'Events dear boy, events'.

For instance was Obama a bad President because he promised he would shut Guantanamo, but that didn't happen? Or was it because of the elements and factors opposing a solution to a problem not of his making?

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/08/01/why-obama-has-failed-to-close-guantanamo
 
If you are saying Donald Trump is the most damning indictment of Obama then you must mean that Trump is worse?

The thing is to say someone is an objectively bad President needs some values or context.

For instance you could say he failed to meet his promises and that is the criteria on which to judge him, but is that really fair when a President can only do so much and is reliant on Congress and many other factors. Compromise is sometimes necessary. In addition, as Macmillan reportedly put it 'Events dear boy, events'.

For instance was Obama a bad President because he promised he would shut Guantanamo, but that didn't happen? Or was it because of the elements and factors opposing a solution to a problem not of his making?

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/08/01/why-obama-has-failed-to-close-guantanamo

I did mean trump is a worse president.. he's abject.

For me Obama was a terrible president because he promised he would:-

Deal with wallstreet
Go single payer healthcare
Not sign executive orders
Give any bill 5 days before he signed it for transparency
Shut Guantanamo
End the many wars

When in reality he did the opposite of every single one of those things almost immediately (for instance signed his first executive order 3 months into his presidency).

He also evicted 7,000,000 from their homes
Used the IRS to investigate critical journalists
Forced through the oil pipeline despite the protests of the native American Indians
Spied on political opponents
Allowed gun running to Mexican cartels
Personally signed his kill lists
Dropped so much ordnance they ran out
Aggressively went after the occupy protests
The list goes on and on...

You mistake me for believing the republicans or donald trump are good, the only difference between them is that you know it's coming with the republicans the Dems get a pass because their considered to be on 'our team'.
 
I'm not sure about that, Obama - Trump voters were the key swing demographic..

I don't think most Americans are racist (I mean Obama was black and president) unlike their law enforcement.
There's definitely an underlying racism and always has been, large swathes of the country are racist, bigoted, and the worst kind of 'patriots'. I was amazed that Obama got in, he managed to invigorate the youth who don't usually vote. The kickback from that was that the older and less educated responded with Trump, those that hated the progressiveness be it equality for blacks, mexicans, gays, transgenders or anyone that isn't the vision of americana that some long for. I guess it was progressiveness in general they fought against but the racism element was a clear factor. That's my view based on having lived there for 2 1/2 years and having many american friends that I'm in regular contact with, some of them move in political circles.
 
There's definitely an underlying racism and always has been, large swathes of the country are racist, bigoted, and the worst kind of 'patriots'. I was amazed that Obama got in, he managed to invigorate the youth who don't usually vote. The kickback from that was that the older and less educated responded with Trump, those that hated the progressiveness be it equality for blacks, mexicans, gays, transgenders or anyone that isn't the vision of americana that some long for. I guess it was progressiveness in general they fought against but the racism element was a clear factor. That's my view based on having lived there for 2 1/2 years and having many american friends that I'm in regular contact with, some of them move in political circles.

Ok fair enough it was just racism nothing to do with his failure as president.👍🏻
 
It was the same racism across large swathes of the US that got Obama elected twice... you would have thought all those ignorant racists would have spotted he wasn't a white supremacist
 
Ok fair enough it was just racism nothing to do with his failure as president.👍🏻
he had failures and he had successes. But he moved the Overton window a little left of where it had been, that riled large segments of the population, it really is a hugely racist country in parts.

Let's not forget though, that even though as you put it Obama failed, the Dems still got significantly more votes than Republicans. It was only the anomaly of the voting system and the emphasis on a series of states some renowned for racism that got him the presidency
 
It was the same racism across large swathes of the US that got Obama elected twice... you would have thought all those ignorant racists would have spotted he wasn't a white supremacist
It's a bit more complicated than that. He managed to energise the youth and black vote enough to suppress any racist response.

Hillary lost black voters, and the racist voters with anti-mexican and black rhetoric saw the chance for revenge and came out in numbers.
 
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