Israel and Palestine Conflict

GazC_MFC said:
You can’t just randomly shout in a class though. Should probably have been given detention
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I'd be more concerned that you can't just accuse a child of racism, that's far more serious than a kid shouting out and should lead to legal action and discipline of those that came to that conclusion
 
Laughing said:
The issue is the country I live in both buy and sell arms to Israel. I think they are our 6th biggest purchaser of arms. Address that first. That is the single biggest issue here. Starmer's silence on the issue, which isn't even that accurate, is so far down the list of problems as to be inconsequential.
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we know what happens when a Labour leader speaks out in defence of Palestine and against the actions of Israel....they're branded anti-semitic and it costs votes and ultimately hands power to the Tories who perpetuate the oppression of the palestinians with verbal support and arms.

The only way to break that circle is to not focus strongly on the israel-palestine issue in public until they get in power.
 
uncle_rico said:
Do you only look for photos and videos of Palestinian kids?

There are innocent people being killed on both sides. I find it strange that people take sides in things like this. There are no winners.
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I don't think anyone (or many anyway) are taking just one side. However it's a question of scale - look at the sheer numbers of people killed on each side, look at the weaponry that is used from both sides and understand this is a 95% / 5% battle.
 
SuperStu said:
Like I said Laughing it doesn't make much difference to me what Starmer says about it but I don't begrudge anyone mentioning him.

You've gone from 1) people shouldn't be mentioning Starmer, to 2) people shouldn't be mentioning Starmer unless they're also saying X, Y and Z, to 3) people shouldn't be mentioning Starmer unless they're mentioning Boris. Which makes it seem a bit like your main priority is that nobody criticise Starmer. Brings me back to my earlier question; if people being political is so distasteful what's the difference between criticising or defending a politician seen to not be speaking about a political issue?
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My priority is the genocide of the Palestinians. If Labour had formed a government at the last election and continued to sell and buy arms in deals with the Israeli state I would be lambasting starmer. Place the blame squarely where it belongs.
 
uncle_rico said:
Do you only look for photos and videos of Palestinian kids?

There are innocent people being killed on both sides. I find it strange that people take sides in things like this. There are no winners.
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Whilst I totally agree that there are no winners and I equally abhor the death of innocents on both sides, I’m going to stick my neck out and say that it’s a simple numbers issue and there are many more examples available of Palestinian deaths than Israeli deaths.
 
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American_Mary said:
Whilst I totally agree that there are no winners and I equally abhor the death of innocents on both sides, I’m going to stick my neck and say that it’s a simple numbers issue and there are many more examples available of Palestinian deaths than Israeli deaths.
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Especially when innocent children are involved too. Plus the flattening of high rise buildings hosting media corporations.

Easiest solution?

The Israelis should give back the land they've forcefully taken from the Palestinian people over the years and let Palestine grow and prosper as a country in its own right.
 
WeeGord said:
I don't think anyone (or many anyway) are taking just one side. However it's a question of scale - look at the sheer numbers of people killed on each side, look at the weaponry that is used from both sides and understand this is a 95% / 5% battle.
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exactly, Israel killed more palestinians in three days than Hamas killed in 10 years.

This isn't war, it's a fight for survival, from genocide and oppression. I'm sure all those trying to downplay the plight of the palestinians would not react if someone walked into their home and turfed them out and said 'this is my home now'.
 
Randy said:
Especially when innocent children are involved too. Plus the flattening of high rise buildings hosting media corporations.

Easiest solution?

The Israelis should give back the land they've forcefully taken from the Palestinian people over the years and let Palestine grow and prosper as a country in its own right.
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It's the only solution Randy, and countries like the US and UK where the governments defend Israeli action need shaming, the people need to have their voice heard that this isn't acceptable. Americans are so far gone into cuckoo land that they are decades away from caring about the plight of Palestine, but in this country there is a real possibility that we can reverse government support in the next ten years. We have to keep the pressure on
 
uncle_rico said:
Do you only look for photos and videos of Palestinian kids?

There are innocent people being killed on both sides. I find it strange that people take sides in things like this. There are no winners.
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I won`t apologise to anyone with the way I`m posting

You of course are right though, there are deaths on both sides and the current ratio is 133 Palestinian deaths for every 1 Israeli death

but you are wrong that there are no winners, because if Israel continue to kill indiscriminately, that Palestinian child population of 43% will rise even further to the point where they can not defend themselves and Palestinians will just be orphans
 
for the purpose of looking at both sides ( I was going to say balanced but it really isn`t ) here are the news reports on the Israeli deaths, which obviously is very sad to see

Unfortunately for whatever reason (probably a good one though) the Reddit site for Israel has been closed so I can`t report on any footage surrounding deaths, injuries, houses/homes being blown to bits and their houses being repossessed by Palestinians........saying that I could go to the MSM for that I guess.....

Anyway

https://twitter.com/x/status/1393848579106742277

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/four-people-injured-after-rocket-strikes-house-in-ashkelon-667825

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news...-gaza-border-crossing-over-rocket-fire-667730

https://www.timesofisrael.com/a-chi...-to-shelter-10-gaza-rocket-victims-in-israel/

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveb...e-cities-and-towns-throughout-central-israel/
 
parmoboy said:
I believe Israel has the right to exist and defend itself but I think they’re seriously overdoing it, as they’ve done many times before.

They have the power but they need to be able to show restraint. Their latest strike has killed 10 kids.
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The Palestinians have a "right to exist", but are denied citizenship in their own country.

They have the right to "defend" themselves against an army of occupation who forcefully evict them them from their homes, demolish their homes, imprison them without charge indefinitely without access to a lawyer or family.

They have a right to their land, which continues to be forcibly stolen from them by extremist ultra-nationalist colonists, supported by the military, with tanks, bulldozers and weapons.

They dont have the right to a passport or freedom of movement in their own country.

Their electricity is controlled by the Military regime who discriminately turn it on and off at will.

The racist ziionists force those with darker skin to drive on separate roads to the superior race [Israelis].

The "Nation State Law" does not recognise marriage between Jews and non-Jews.

Palestinians are banned from living in the same neighbourhoods as Israelis.

Palestinian Arabs are not allowed on the trams in Jerusalem - unlike the Ethnic "settlers".

Unlike "The Right of Return" (?!!) for all and sundry around the globe [who have no connection with Israel or the Middle East ] an estimated 8,000,000 + Palestinians are refugees in foreign lands - often having to apply for asylum - living with "permits" and "temporary" residency.

They have no "Right of Return" to their own land.

Almost 2,000,000 Palestinians in Israel live in "Refugee Camps" administered by the United Nations Relief and Works Agency!

If you ever go to Palestine, you will see the Blue Beret of the UN in places like Bethlehem and Ramallah.

The Israeli regime is a racist apartheid state.

Dont lecture the Palestinians about democracy and the rights of the oppressors to oppress them.

You cannot negotiate down the barrel of a gun.
or the gun turret of a tank
or against the 4th largest army in the world!

How do you suggest Palestinians "defend" themselves against Apartheid?

Its like asking the camp guards to beat you less severely with an iron rod, but carry on beating you anyway.

This is what the wall looks like - which prevents Palestinian access to their land:
No wall stops freedom.jpg

This is all that is left of a Palestinian family home after the Military demolished it:
Zionist destroy lives and people.jpg

The ongoing Occupation, torture and imprisonment of Palestinian children has a significant impact on their mental health. As the state controls resources and power - it denies them access to any support or services - which we would take for granted. With the restriction of movement into areas A,B,C - Palestinians are frequently denied access to any healthcare of any kind. Many die or complete suicide before help is at hand.
Extinction rebellion reasches palestine.jpeg

This is demolition of Palestinian homes by the Israeli State!
Palestinians have no right to "defend" themselves against the bulldozers!
1621241068787.png

This is what happened in 1948 - what the Palestinians call the "Nakba" [Catastrophe] - when they were driven off their lands, had their homes confiscated by Israeli colonists and forced to march hundreds of miles into Jordan and surrounding states. They and their children and generations since have been forced to flee the terrorism of Zionism.


1948.jpeg

Palestinians are denied the right to use the same roads as the Occupiers. The Palestinian lands are dissected by the wall - in the background you can see the Israeli [No Arabs] town encroaching further into Palestine. The Zionist state pays to build the properties, infrastructure and the utilities.
The_Wall_dividing_the_Cremisan_valley.jpg

Here you see the Israeli Ultra - "Orthodox" colonists, with loaded weapons, who are protected by the Israeli military as they forcefully evict Palestinians off their land - frequently destroying crops and demolishing homes.

If the Palestinians possess weapons to "defend" themselves - they are "Terrorists" ?

Settlers-16052021.jpg

These are the facts of life for the Palestinians.

Ethnic Cleansing of Palestinians has been going on since at least 1948. The grubby hands of British Imperialism is all over the Middle East and we have a major responsibility for the blood of innocents scattered across Palestine.
 
r00fie1 said:
The Palestinians have a "right to exist", but are denied citizenship in their own country.

They have the right to "defend" themselves against an army of occupation who forcefully evict them them from their homes, demolish their homes, imprison them without charge indefinitely without access to a lawyer or family.

They have a right to their land, which continues to be forcibly stolen from them by extremist ultra-nationalist colonists, supported by the military, with tanks, bulldozers and weapons.

They dont have the right to a passport or freedom of movement in their own country.

Their electricity is controlled by the Military regime who discriminately turn it on and off at will.

The racist ziionists force those with darker skin to drive on separate roads to the superior race [Israelis].

The "Nation State Law" does not recognise marriage between Jews and non-Jews.

Palestinians are banned from living in the same neighbourhoods as Israelis.

Palestinian Arabs are not allowed on the trams in Jerusalem - unlike the Ethnic "settlers".

Unlike "The Right of Return" (?!!) for all and sundry around the globe [who have no connection with Israel or the Middle East ] an estimated 8,000,000 + Palestinians are refugees in foreign lands - often having to apply for asylum - living with "permits" and "temporary" residency.

They have no "Right of Return" to their own land.

Almost 2,000,000 Palestinians in Israel live in "Refugee Camps" administered by the United Nations Relief and Works Agency!

If you ever go to Palestine, you will see the Blue Beret of the UN in places like Bethlehem and Ramallah.

The Israeli regime is a racist apartheid state.

Dont lecture the Palestinians about democracy and the rights of the oppressors to oppress them.

You cannot negotiate down the barrel of a gun.
or the gun turret of a tank
or against the 4th largest army in the world!

How do you suggest Palestinians "defend" themselves against Apartheid?

Its like asking the camp guards to beat you less severely with an iron rod, but carry on beating you anyway.

This is what the wall looks like - which prevents Palestinian access to their land:
View attachment 18699

This is all that is left of a Palestinian family home after the Military demolished it:
View attachment 18700

The ongoing Occupation, torture and imprisonment of Palestinian children has a significant impact on their mental health. As the state controls resources and power - it denies them access to any support or services - which we would take for granted. With the restriction of movement into areas A,B,C - Palestinians are frequently denied access to any healthcare of any kind. Many die or complete suicide before help is at hand.
View attachment 18702

This is demolition of Palestinian homes by the Israeli State!
Palestinians have no right to "defend" themselves against the bulldozers!
View attachment 18703

This is what happened in 1948 - what the Palestinians call the "Nakba" [Catastrophe] - when they were driven off their lands, had their homes confiscated by Israeli colonists and forced to march hundreds of miles into Jordan and surrounding states. They and their children and generations since have been forced to flee the terrorism of Zionism.


View attachment 18704

Palestinians are denied the right to use the same roads as the Occupiers. The Palestinian lands are dissected by the wall - in the background you can see the Israeli [No Arabs] town encroaching further into Palestine. The Zionist state pays to build the properties, infrastructure and the utilities.
View attachment 18706

Here you see the Israeli Ultra - "Orthodox" colonists, with loaded weapons, who are protected by the Israeli military as they forcefully evict Palestinians off their land - frequently destroying crops and demolishing homes.

If the Palestinians possess weapons to "defend" themselves - they are "Terrorists" ?

View attachment 18707

These are the facts of life for the Palestinians.

Ethnic Cleansing of Palestinians has been going on since at least 1948. The grubby hands of British Imperialism is all over the Middle East and we have a major responsibility for the blood of innocents scattered across Palestine.
Click to expand...
I think what's needed is a massive push for peace and constant dialogue. They can identify points they could never agree on and look for alternative solutions. It was achievable in Northern Ireland, as negotiations eventually led to the Good Friday Agreement.

I think a two state solution could be agreed. Jerusalem as the undivided capital and the complete sovereignty of Palestine, i.e. they control their own borders. I fear Hamas could be a stumbling block however, as they don't want a two state solution. They want to create a Palestinian state under Islamic Law.
 
parmoboy said:
I think what's needed is a massive push for peace and constant dialogue. They can identify points they could never agree on and look for alternative solutions. It was achievable in Northern Ireland, as negotiations eventually led to the Good Friday Agreement.

I think a two state solution could be agreed. Jerusalem as the undivided capital and the complete sovereignty of Palestine, i.e. they control their own borders. I fear Hamas could be a stumbling block however, as they don't want a two state solution. They want to create a Palestinian state under Islamic Law.
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I can appreciate your view, but "Hammas" is used as a bogey-man.

The struggle against occupation continues before, during and after the Western TV Cameras have been and gone.
Its horrific when you see it face to face.

When I lived Apartheid in the West Bank, it became a stark, bare, raw and naked experience,I will never forget.
Having lived it, I understand the difference between daily reality and Western Media propaganda, fabrication and lies.

Cheers.
UTMB (y)
 
parmoboy said:
I think what's needed is a massive push for peace and constant dialogue. They can identify points they could never agree on and look for alternative solutions. It was achievable in Northern Ireland, as negotiations eventually led to the Good Friday Agreement.

I think a two state solution could be agreed. Jerusalem as the undivided capital and the complete sovereignty of Palestine, i.e. they control their own borders. I fear Hamas could be a stumbling block however, as they don't want a two state solution. They want to create a Palestinian state under Islamic Law.
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I`m sorry but this is not down to Hamas not wanting a 2 state solution

UN draft resolution A68/L15 "Peaceful settlement of the question of Palestine" which called for

Two States, Israel and Palestine … side by side within secure and recognized borders" together with "a just resolution of the refugee question in conformity with UN resolution 194.
The borders of the state of Palestine would be "based on the pre-1967 borders"
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Israel and the USA voted against it, along with Canada, Federated States of Micronesia, Marshall Islands, and Palau - (6)

165 voted for the draft resolution and 6 abstained

In 2017 Hamas signed up to the 1967 border idea proposed above and changed their charter likewise also highlighting that they no longer call for the destruction of Israel, but still calls for liberation of Palestine and to confront the Zionist project
 
boroboy6872 said:
I`m sorry but this is not down to Hamas not wanting a 2 state solution

UN draft resolution A68/L15 "Peaceful settlement of the question of Palestine" which called for



Israel and the USA voted against it, along with Canada, Federated States of Micronesia, Marshall Islands, and Palau - (6)

165 voted for the draft resolution and 6 abstained

In 2017 Hamas signed up to the 1967 border idea proposed above and changed their charter likewise also highlighting that they no longer call for the destruction of Israel, but still calls for liberation of Palestine and to confront the Zionist project
Click to expand...
It's pretty clear that only one side in this conflict is actively trying to find a peaceful and pragmatic solution and it isn't Israel.
 
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