Is this a sign that Clayton is leaving?

Block21 said:
Well their isn’t really any point of me having this debate if that is your attitude. To suggest none of our players were no good is just ludicrous really.
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Tavernier was really good against Reading, in fact I thought he was outstanding.
Friend played his balls off.
Roberts, Dijksteel and Howson did well and Fletcher got a good headed goal.
All of the team played with passion, but Saville was what he always is.
 
BoroMart said:
Nonsense. Has a goal keeper had a poor day if you don't put three past your opposition? What about CBs are they automatically rubbish if you win 2-0 or 2-1? It's a team sport, played by individuals. Assess the individuals for individual merit. Savile got through a huge amount of ground and as a midfielder that is a key asset, he delayed, denied, deflected and defended Readings attempts to attack on a regular basis. He did the dirty work and did it well. He had a decent passing match in both those games, retaining the ball well. He also made some smart runs to pull defenders and midfielders out of position to make space for other players. He wasn't perfect but they are some of his best performances in a Boro shirt and if he plays like that every week he will first team on the team sheet, even if some fans expect something else from him
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If George Saville is first name on our team sheet then we may as well pack in.
 
indeedido said:
If George Saville is first name on our team sheet then we may as well pack in.
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Well no need to distil my full comment down to a partial quote to misrepresent me. I said "if he plays like that every week....". Someone has to put in the hard running, the dirty work, and Saville did a very good job in those games mentioned at that part of the game.

It is also a part of the game which Warnocks sides are famous for, hard running midfielders, pressurising opponents into loosing the ball cheaply is part of his football philosophy. In the same way that Boateng wasn't our most talented technical player with the ball at his feet, he was still first name on the teamsheet, because he did the water carrying for everyone else. Saville on the past couple of performances could do that, certainly better than anyone else in the squad.
 
OK Mart I will quote you fully:
"He wasn't perfect but they are some of his best performances in a Boro shirt and if he plays like that every week he will first team on the team sheet".

So if he plays like that and is first name on the team sheet we may as well pack in.
Boateng was a different league in every way. Saville doesn't have the engine, pace, tackling or positional sense to play the same role, let alone do it as well.
He's not in the same league as Clayton or Leadbitter were under Karanka and they were miles off Boateng and Zenden our best midfield pairing since Souness and Murdoch.

I do get that we have won 3 out of 7, saved ourselves and Warnock has them up for it, one match in two.
But I don't forget how some players have been since they came here and are still pretty much the same players.
We can do better than them and will I believe.

It's all opinions, we are all fans.
 
Will be sad to see Clayton and Wing go. I add Wing as people above mention Clayton's lack of pace. He is like an Olympic sprinter compared to Wing so suppose he will be going as well using that reasoning.
Saville however is one of the most mediocre players I have ever witnessed in a Boro shirt since John Gannon. McNair is only slightly better.
 
indeedido said:
Boateng was a different league in every way. Saville doesn't have the engine, pace, tackling or positional sense to play the same role, let alone do it as well.
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As you say, Boateng was in a different league, and that's kind of the pint. If Saville tried to do the dirty work in the premier league, he would be as bad as Clayton was. But this is the championship, and on the his performances under Warnock he can play that role. Maybe not quite as defensively good as Clayton was under Karanka, but better at starting attacks from deep. I agree he lacks a bit of pace, but he's still quicker than Clayton ever was.

I've been critical of Saville before now, he has been pretty meh since he arrived, rarely terrible, but hasn't hit any real highs. But there are green shoots in the last few weeks. He looked a great player for Millwall, not just goals, but played it about a bit and had a great engine. With the right manager and the right role, he can be effective, not a world beater, but you don't need to be in this league.
 
The worst comment you can make about a central midfielder is that “the game passes them by” - this has happened to most of our midfielders for years now, they just chase shadows and pass sideways. Clayton and Saville have done this in spades over the last couple of seasons. We desperately need one or two midfielders who put there foot on the ball and control the game, something boateng excelled at.
 
gravy173 said:
The worst comment you can make about a central midfielder is that “the game passes them by” - this has happened to most of our midfielders for years now, they just chase shadows and pass sideways. Clayton and Saville have done this in spades over the last couple of seasons.
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I'd say Clayton and Wing are the two worst for this, and yes, at times Saville but it's undeniable he has improved in the games since Warnock came in. NW has a habit of making effective players out of underachievers.

Warnock isn't really into possession and playing through the thirds, he's quite happy for CM to get stuck in and give it to the talent up top. Don't expect his midfielders to spend time on the ball. Our 2 worst performances are where we have had a lot of the ball

Hull 53% lost (although unlucky)
Bristol C 46% lost and played terrible
Reading 43% won and played well
Millwall 41% won and played very well
QPR 32% lost and played poorly
Stoke 31% possession, Won

Warnock gets playing without the ball right first. On average each player on a pitch will have less than 3 mins with the ball in a game, they'll have 87 mins without it where they need to do the right thing either defensively or attacking. I see improvements in that already.
 
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