Is It A Derby?

Looking back the stats don't lie (yes I've got far too much time on my hands) We hate harping on about attendances but look at the stats (especially from the 60s and 70s) of Boro and Sunderland home games before or after the fixture ... the numbers speak for themselves this game clearly meant alot

Who's the stat man on here? If you can be bothered look at the table I've compiled and taking out our 2 UEFA Cup campaigns we can finally work out who is the most successful club going back to the 60s

I've not included the TEXACO and Anglo Scottish Cup games

What on earth was the 'c0ck of the North' Cup ????!!!!!! played in 1961/62 between Boro, Newcastle and Sunderland

Another thing I was surprised to discover the Boro and Newcastle almost contested the 1976 League Cup Final, The Mags made it to the final but we just failed in the Semi Final

26.12.70SLAND 2MBRO 242617KERR HUGHES HICKTON 214721
10.04.71MBRO 2SLAND 226479LAIDLAW HICKTON WATSON HUGHES19585
29.09.71SLAND 4MBRO 128129KERR WATSON TUEART HUGHES VINCENT13102
22.01.72MBRO 2SLAND 034446HICKTON 213117
12.08.72MBRO 2SLAND 124145M SMITH 2 LATHAN11410
17.02.73SLAND 4MBRO 026040HORSWILL HUGHES HALOM TUEART22781
26.12.73MBRO 2SLAND 137030FOGGON BOAM TUEART16764
02.03.74SLAND 0MBRO 241658MILLS FOGGON21129
25.01.75MBRO 3SLAND 139400*ROBSON MURDOCH HICKTON 227996
11.09.76MBRO 2SLAND 128329WILLEY2 GREENWOOD17694
19.02.77SLAND 4MBORO 033226ARNOTT HOLDEN LEE ROWELL21407
30.08.77SLAND 2MBRO 226597HOLDEN ROWELL ARMSTRONG228261
13.09.77MBRO 1SLAND 029572BOAM19240
13.09.80SLAND 0MBRO 132745JANKOVIC41141
07.02.81MBRO 1SLAND 035065HEDLEY16099
14.11.81MBRO 0SLAND 02101913423
03.04.82SLAND 0MBRO 219006ASHCROFT BAXTER11845*
22.10.85SLAND 1MBRO 020541GATES16613
28.12.85MBRO 2SLAND 019701MOWBRAY MCANDREW4531
18.08.87SLAND 1MBRO 015770GATES
25.08.87MBRO 2SLAND 015570SLAVEN MOWBRAY11471
27.08.89SLAND 2MBRO 121569PASCOE BENNETT SLAVEN15965
14.01.90MBRO 3SLAND 017698DAV SLAVEN PARKY11428*
28.09.91MBRO 2SLAND 119424SLAVEN WILKINSON16550
20.04.92SLAND 1MBRO 025093DAVENPORT16716*
17.10.93MBRO 4SLAND 112772HIGGY HENDRIE WILKO2 HOWEY13801
16.01.94SLAND 2MBRO 116473P GRAY HOWEY VICKERS19302
11.09.94MBRO 2SLAND 219578MOORE PEARSON RUSSELL219570
21.03.95SLAND 0MBRO 116501POLLOCK12282
14.10.96SLAND 2MBRO 220936RAE RUSSELL EMERSON RAV19459
19.04.97MBRO 0SLAND 130106WILLIAMS29888
28.09.97SLAND 1MBRO 235384BALL EMERSON MUSTOE30682
21.02.98MBRO 3SLAND 130227BRANCA 2 ARMSTRONG30165
15.10.97MBRO 2SLAND 026451CAMPBELL HIGNETT
06.11.99MBRO 1SLAND 134793RICARD REDDY33916
18.03.00SLAND 1MBRO 142013QUINN ZIEGE41940
09.12.00SLAND 1MBRO 047742GRAY46372
09.04.01MBRO 0SLAND 03128428177
22.10.01MBRO 2SLAND 028432QUEUDRUE BOKSIC26142
29.01.02SLAND 0MBRO 144579WHELAN45124
10.09.02MBRO 3SLAND 032155NEMETH 2 MACCARONE28270
22.02.03SLAND 1MBORO 342134PHILLIPS RIGGOTT 2 CHRISTIE36042
25.09.05MBRO 0SLAND 229583MILLER ARCA28075
31.01.06SLAND 0MBRO 331675POGATETZ PARN JFH32420
22.09.07MBRO 2SLAND 230675ARCA DOWNING22920
26.04.08SLAND 3MBRO 245059TUNCAY ALVES46797
20.09.08SLAND 2MBRO 038388CHOPRA 239622
10.01.09MBRO 1SLAND 129310ALVES27320*
29.01.12SLAND 1MBRO 133347CAMPBELL ROBSON
08.02.12MBRO 1SLAND 226707JUTKIE COLBACK SESS15725
30.10.12SLAND 0MBRO 132535MCDONALD
21.08.16SLAND 1MBRO 243515VAN AANHOLT STUANI 242406
26.04.17MBRO 1SLAND 030742DE ROON31298
05.11.17MBRO 1SLAND 029277TAVERNIER24806
24.02.18SLAND 3MBRO 329048BAMFORD 2 LEADBITTER27702
06.01.18MBRO 2SLAND 026399GESTEDE BRAITHWAITE
 
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CarrickBall said:
They do think it's a derby and they do care, they just like to say it isn't as it makes them feel superior/a bigger club.

"I know that you really care and it means lots to you, but it means nothing to us, as we're above that".
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This is spot on. As the little brother to Newcastle they have always been desperate to be seen as just as big and an important club in England. So their fans' tone is always striving prove they are massive, superior and claim everyone is obsessed with them when no-one is. We're a smaller town, with smaller attendances with very localised support but always punching well above our weight and regularly beating them. We think it's funny and take the p1ss. So it's natural they do everything possible to try to look superior and 'above it' and they don't care. All the time their knuckles go whiter & whiter as they cling harder and harder to the mag shirt tails. Generally I wish SAFC and all NE clubs well but unfortunately the fans of this lot are just a bunch of w4nkers really.
 
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MIDDLESBROSUNDERLAND
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1996/97 LEAGUE(D1) 19/20 39*(D1) 18/20 40
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1997/98 LEAGUE(D2) 2/24 91(D2) 3/24 90
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1998/99 LEAGUE(D1) 9/20 51(D2) 1/24 105
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InglebyUTB said:
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Spot on. I don't actually have an issue with fans on both sides saying it isn't a derby, on paper it isn't, and neither is Newcastle vs Sunderland. A proper derby is a game played between two clubs from the same city.

What I find silly though is Sunderland fans trying to say it doesn't have an edge to it and it's like playing any other club.

I remember once a Sunderland fan on their board said he couldn't understand Sunderland fans saying it's just like any other game. He said he believes it's mostly a younger generation thing. One Sunderland fan replied and said that he was in his 50's and it's always felt like just another game to him, and the guy then replied to say well you can't have attended games between Boto and Sunderland during the 70's and 80's, as apparently there was more trouble off the field then when they played Newcastle.
 
Boro said:
This is spot on. As the little brother to Newcastle they have always been desperate to be seen as just as big and an important club in England. So their fans' tone is always striving prove they are massive, superior and claim everyone is obsessed with them when no-one is. We're a smaller town, with smaller attendances with very localised support but always punching well above our weight and regularly beating them. We think it's funny and take the p1ss. So it's natural they do everything possible to try to look superior and 'above it' and they don't care. All the time their knuckles go whiter & whiter as they cling harder and harder to the mag shirt tails. Generally I wish SAFC and all NE clubs well but unfortunately the fans of this lot are just a bunch of w4nkers really.
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They will never admit it but they feel inferior to Newcastle because they know Newcastle are a bigger club on every level.

It hurts them so they want us to feel inferior to them, when in reality we're not bothered about whether or not we're regarded as a big club.

The big thread they have on their board now, bragging about being the best supported club in the Championship sums them up. Fair enough their support is impressive but it helps massively that their season ticket prices are dirt cheap. £390 an adult and I don't even think that's solely for fans who renew, and £48 for U16s.
 
TeaCider said:
Newcastle and Sunderland isn't a "proper derby" if you're viewing it that way.

Whether one side cares more or not, it's still a derby

If we played Hartlepool, it would be a derby, despite most Boro fans wishing nothing but positivity on them.
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Although plenty of them don’t like us in my experience!
 
Of course it's a Derby game, the suggestion it isn't only seems to be a more recent assertion, mostly from a Sunderland point of view.

Clubs can have more than one derby game, the London clubs are an example of that, albeit some games being more significant than others of course.

Nor does a derby have to be between clubs from the same city, plenty of debry's arent.
 
I have some friends who are Newcastle fans, they class Boro as a Derby. Not as big as the Sunderland game, but still a Derby.
So how on earth, can Sunderland that's closer not class us as a derby?!

Their fans are laughable
 
Jonny Ingbar said:
Of course it's a Derby game, the suggestion it isn't only seems to be a more recent assertion, mostly from a Sunderland point of view.

Clubs can have more than one derby game, the London clubs are an example of that, albeit some games being more significant than others of course.

Nor does a derby have to be between clubs from the same city, plenty of debry's arent.
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Everybody has those teams they can't wait to play and even though they're not within the geography to call it a 'derby' they still do.

Man United vs Leeds for example. They very much look forward to that game as much as any. There is a deep seated despisal of each other
 
parmoboy said:
Spot on. I don't actually have an issue with fans on both sides saying it isn't a derby, on paper it isn't, and neither is Newcastle vs Sunderland. A proper derby is a game played between two clubs from the same city.

What I find silly though is Sunderland fans trying to say it doesn't have an edge to it and it's like playing any other club.

I remember once a Sunderland fan on their board said he couldn't understand Sunderland fans saying it's just like any other game. He said he believes it's mostly a younger generation thing. One Sunderland fan replied and said that he was in his 50's and it's always felt like just another game to him, and the guy then replied to say well you can't have attended games between Boto and Sunderland during the 70's and 80's, as apparently there was more trouble off the field then when they played Newcastle.
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From my memory, definitely more trouble with Sunderland than Newcastle, back in the 70's and 80's, particularly inside Ayresome park. Sunderland fans had a habit of straying beyond their away end. Major problems in the bob end and the south terrace at various league/ cup games.
 
NorthumberlandBoro said:
From my memory, definitely more trouble with Sunderland than Newcastle, back in the 70's and 80's, particularly inside Ayresome park. Sunderland fans had a habit of straying beyond their away end. Major problems in the bob end and the south terrace at various league/ cup games.
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There's a poster on their board, goes by the name of T-Bone who has lots of stories, not sure how many of them are true mind. Claims Sunderland took over the holgate during one game in the 80's.

Probably a Walter Mitty to be fair.
 

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parmoboy said:
There's a poster on their board, goes by the name of T-Bone who has lots of stories, not sure how many of them are true mind. Claims Sunderland took over the holgate during one game in the 80's.

Probably a Walter Mitty to be fair.
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They never went in the holgate in my time(74 onwards),as far as I can recollect.
However,I understand that for one game in the early 70's there were directed en mass into one side of the holgate by the police.
I believe that this is where the myth of 'sunderland took the holgate' may have derived. Older posters may know better.
 
parmoboy said:
There's a poster on their board, goes by the name of T-Bone who has lots of stories, not sure how many of them are true mind. Claims Sunderland took over the holgate during one game in the 80's.

Probably a Walter Mitty to be fair.
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He's a walter mitty. I never missed a Tees-Wear derby at Ayersome in the 80's. The only trouble I saw inside the ground itself was during our 1-0 win we had, can't remember the year, but it was Hedley's freekick that won it. Anyway, quite a few mackems were in the Boys End that day and kicked off after we scored, they got battered. Battered in the Boys End of all places.

Mackems wouldn't have gone anywhere near the Holgate and if they did, wouldn't have lasted 5 seconds.
 
A couple of times a load of them jumped down into the south terrace from seats above (I think they stormed the gates).
I remember my Dad holding up a Boro fan who was collapsing having received a wound to the neck .
Some nasty people back then.
 
There's obviously local rivalry, but it's similar to how say Barnsley or Rotherham view playing either of the Sheffield teams and vice versa, with ourselves being the other South Yorkshire teams and Wednesday and United being Mags and Makems. Similar also to say Bolton v Man Utd, or Wolves v Villa. It's a bigger game to us than them. Personally my local rivalry as a proud Yorkshireman is with the dirty Leeds scum ;)
 
GazBoro said:
He's a walter mitty. I never missed a Tees-Wear derby at Ayersome in the 80's. The only trouble I saw inside the ground itself was during our 1-0 win we had, can't remember the year, but it was Hedley's freekick that won it. Anyway, quite a few mackems were in the Boys End that day and kicked off after we scored, they got battered. Battered in the Boys End of all places.

Mackems wouldn't have gone anywhere near the Holgate and if they did, wouldn't have lasted 5 seconds.
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I went to every Tees Wear Derby at Ayresome in the 80s and only really remember trouble outside the ground. Now the Geordies in 83 was a different kettle of fish. They don't like to be told but they are forever in the shadow of their bigger cousins from the Tyne.
 
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