If we had all players available would you start Clarke?

[TeaCider]

A good sign that you shouldn't just use stat sites to judge player performances is that Engel got by far the highest statistical rating of any player of either team in the Southampton match, a match he really struggled in and was dropped for the next match because of.

 

[Humpty]

It isn't a prejudice to say Fry is the least comfortable of the centre backs with the ball at his feet surely?

Are his stats simply padded by taking the safest and easiest option more of the time? Is that the best for the team over all, or are those taking more risks to draw / beat the opposition press better over a season?

He wouldn't be doing it if he wasn't given those instructions from Carrick. The fact we nearly always have one of Howson, Barlaser and Hackney dropping in to pick up the ball would indicate to me that Carrick wants his best passers on the ball as soon as possible which is why our centre halves have high short passing stats.

 

[Humpty]

I'd also say we are seemingly mixing it up and going longer more often now too, rather religiously sticking to the very short game we were earlier in the season, and the keepers passing / calmness probably plays into it too.

That's probably because we've had Hackney missing from the side. I doubt we'd be doing that if he was fit.

 

[BoroMart]

It isn't a prejudice to say Fry is the least comfortable of the centre backs with the ball at his feet surely?

Are his stats simply padded by taking the safest and easiest option more of the time? Is that the best for the team over all, or are those taking more risks to draw / beat the opposition press better over a season?

If his safe option sees better ball retention than someone making a difficult option and failing, then no. It's about passing selection. Fry isn't a poor passer.

You're looking at pass percentages which is pretty worthless.

It's only worthless if you are doubling down on the facts not being true. Yes Clarke does some eye catching progressive work, but he also makes a lot more mistakes.

 

[BoroMart]

Regarding all of these stats people are coming out with on the thread.

Are you sure about the veracity of them? Do you know what they actually mean. How do you know the footballstatz website you are using isn't counting a headed clearance as a forward pass? How do you know it isn't all made up b***ks.

Yes, I'm sure of the veracity

 

[Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret]

Yes, I'm sure of the veracity

Keeping it to yourself though.

 

[Simply red]

Statistics

Touches on the Ball Per 90 Mins:

Helik 51.1
Wood - 74.6
Cooper - 57.3

Passing Completion Rate:

Helik - 73.3%
Wood - 90.8%
Cooper - 73.2%

Passing Progressive Distance (Forward Yards Gained per 90 Mins)

Helik - 246.6
Wood - 380
Cooper - 288.4

Progressive Carries Distance (Forward Yards Gained per 90 mins)

Helik - 130.2
Wood - 256.8
Cooper - 61.6

It's pretty obvious which teams like to play out from the back when you look at the CB stats.

Thanks BG , going by that we should be all over getting Nathan Wood back . Should never have let him leave in the 1st place. I watched him from the age of 8 for Tibs, we found a gem , he just needed managing off the field, and maybe he will have that with MC.

 

[Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret]

Look here's some examples of why pass completion rate and all this stuff is b***ks.

Player A has the ball. He plays it inside to a midfielder who is heavily marked and in a poor position with no options available to him. This player looses the ball and a goal is conceded.
This counts as a completed pass towards player A excellent pass completion rate.

Player B under severe pressure from defence hoys the ball down the line in the general vicinity of his winger. The defender gets the ball by his own corner flag. The winger pressures the defender into slicing the ball out for a throw.

Such bald statistics gleaned from some website or other are worthless.

 

[Simply red]

Thanks BG , going by that we should be all over getting Nathan Wood back on a free transfer . Should never have let him leave in the 1st place. I watched him from the age of 8 for Tibs, we found a gem , he just needed managing off the field, and maybe he will have that with MC.

Put the stats up for Ladislav Krejci please .

 

[BoroPhil]

A good sign that you shouldn't just use stat sites to judge player performances is that Engel got by far the highest statistical rating of any player of either team in the Southampton match, a match he really struggled in and was dropped for the next match because of.

but was he dropped? or was it just rotation

 

[Humpty]

Thanks BG , going by that we should be all over getting Nathan Wood back on a free transfer . Should never have let him leave in the 1st place. I watched him from the age of 8 for Tibs, we found a gem , he just needed managing off the field, and maybe he will have that with MC.

From what i heard he doesn't have a great mentality. Got mixed up with Aaron Connolly and all his hi-jinx and demanded first team football when he'd barely made a first team appearance.

We should be asking the question why Swansea are letting a player of that "caliber" leave for free. Maybe Wood refused a new contract but who knows.

 

[B_G]

Look here's some examples of why pass completion rate and all this stuff is b***ks.

Player A has the ball. He plays it inside to a midfielder who is heavily marked and in a poor position with no options available to him. This player looses the ball and a goal is conceded.
This counts as a completed pass towards player A excellent pass completion rate.

Player B under severe pressure from defence hoys the ball down the line in the general vicinity of his winger. The defender gets the ball by his own corner flag. The winger pressures the defender into slicing the ball out for a throw.

Such bald statistics gleaned from some website or other are worthless.

Stats aren't perfect but they are useful. The best players don't always have the best stats and stats don't capture everything.
But they do paint a non bias picture and they do provide some facts and they are useful.

Barlaser has pretty good stats in possession yet I would never have him anywhere near our first team because he has very obvious weaknesses that aren't always picked up with stats.

Clarke's defensive stats are the best of the 5 by the way.

There's lots of things that aren't picked up easily with stats such as positioning, reading of the game, off the ball work etc. It won't pick up whether one bad pass is because a player has tried a difficult pass or whether it was a sloppy easy pass. They won't pick up whether an incomplete pass was made in our defensive 3rd or in our attacking 3rd. So all this is down to interpretation which also important.

You and others on this thread are getting irritated because the stats are proving your biased statements to be incorrect about Fry / Clarke.

 

[B_G]

Put the stats up for Ladislav Krejci please .

Don't have them in such detail. Sorry

 

[TeaCider]

but was he dropped? or was it just rotation

We'll see tomorrow.

But then I thought Thomas was by far our weakest player on Monday, so it could still be that he was dropped and his replacement was dropped in turn.

I like Engel, and always defend him on here, but he had a really poor match against Southamlton.

 

[Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret]

Stats aren't perfect but they are useful. The best players don't always have the best stats and stats don't capture everything.
But they do paint a non bias picture and they do provide some facts and they are useful.

Barlaser has pretty good stats in possession yet I would never have him anywhere near our first team because he has very obvious weaknesses that aren't always picked up with stats.

Clarke's defensive stats are the best of the 5 by the way.

There's lots of things that aren't picked up easily with stats such as positioning, reading of the game, off the ball work etc. It won't pick up whether one bad pass is because a player has tried a difficult pass or whether it was a sloppy easy pass. They won't pick up whether an incomplete pass was made in our defensive 3rd or in our attacking 3rd. So all this is down to interpretation which also important.

You and others on this thread are getting irritated because the stats are proving your biased statements to be incorrect about Fry / Clarke.

I don't really understand this post. You seem to be pretty much agreeing with me that pass possession statistics are useless.

Yet you state these worthless and unverified stats have proved me wrong.

If that is your idea of proof I hope you never get to sit on a jury.

 

[B_G]

I don't really understand this post. You seem to be pretty much agreeing with me that pass possession statistics are useless.

Yet you state these worthless and unverified stats have proved me wrong.

If that is your idea of proof I hope you never get to sit on a jury.

I've said they aren't always perfect. But are useful.

The stats have proved you wrong because you claimed Clarke is far more progressive in his passing than Fry when he factually isn't.

I get it you think Clarke is better. It's your opinion. Who am I to say whether that you are right or wrong? But you made a factually incorrect statement which I pointed out.

 

[Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret]

Your statistics haven't proved anything.

Firstly you haven't told us where you got them from. As far as we know they are just made up horse**** from some dodgy website.

For all we know a player clearing the ball of the line to the halfway line might marked as an incomplete pass.

Then you've just posted something which I think says how long a player has kicked the ball and how often. This really doesn't prove very much at all. There are far two many variables at play to make such simplistic analysis worthwhile. Take the two examples I gave in a previous post.

 

[B_G]

Your statistics haven't proved anything.

Firstly you haven't told us where you got them from. As far as we know they are just made up horse**** from some dodgy website.

For all we know a player clearing the ball of the line to the halfway line might marked as an incomplete pass.

Then you've just posted something which I think says how long a player has kicked the ball and how often. This really doesn't prove very much at all. There are far two many variables at play to make such simplistic analysis worthwhile. Take the two examples I gave in a previous post.

Aye you're right pal
I made them all up

 

[Simply red]

From what i heard he doesn't have a great mentality. Got mixed up with Aaron Connolly and all his hi-jinx and demanded first team football when he'd barely made a first team appearance.

We should be asking the question why Swansea are letting a player of that "caliber" leave for free. Maybe Wood refused a new contract but who knows.

Just seen he has extended his contract by a year so not a free now.

 

[BoroMart]

Keeping it to yourself though.

it's accurate enough. You haven't given any evidence that it lacks veracity or any alternative figures, just an arrogant belief that you are right so the figures must be wrong, meh. Pointless debating this with people that ignore data that doesn't meet their preconceived views.