I work with some one who believes in “the flood”

I seem to recall redneck there was a revision in the 14th century too. The bible is certainly a highly editorialized collection of older writings.

It doesn't even stand up well as a moral guide.

If a creator made the universe he then set it in motion and made sure it required no further intervention.
 
We were talking about dinosaurs and how they died out and yet how crocodiles are basically dinosaurs of today
Actually, birds are the dinosaurs of today, being the only modern-day creatures that are descended from them. The article below from the Natural History Museum's website explains this.

Why are birds the only surviving dinosaurs?

Modern crocodiles and alligators are almost unchanged from their ancient ancestors which existed alongside the dinosaurs and shared a common ancestor with them - but they are not descended from dinosaurs.
 
Actually, birds are the dinosaurs of today, being the only modern-day creatures that are descended from them. The article below from the Natural History Museum's website explains this.

Why are birds the only surviving dinosaurs?

Modern crocodiles and alligators are almost unchanged from their ancient ancestors which existed alongside the dinosaurs and shared a common ancestor with them - but they are not descended from dinosaurs.
I would take a little bit of issue with this. For example pterodactyl was not a dinosaur, technically. However it really was, I know this because I watched jurassic Park. David Attenborough wouldn't do a documentary that wasn't fact checked.
 
I seem to recall redneck there was a revision in the 14th century too. The bible is certainly a highly editorialized collection of older writings.

It doesn't even stand up well as a moral guide.

If a creator made the universe he then set it in motion and made sure it required no further intervention.
I would disagree. For me it stands up as a moral guide very well, even the much quoted Ghandi agreed. The Bible is not the problem, we are. The Bible is made up of 66 books 39 in the Hebrew Scriptures & 27 in the Christian Greek. The modern day translations are commonly from a number of sources such as Aramaic Targums, the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Samaritan Torah, the Greek Septuagint, the Latin Vulgate, the Masoretic Text, the Cairo Codex, the Aleppo Codex. Translation of the Bible has always been meticulous (until the KJ version where the divine right of kings was added), in fact Hebrew copyists, or scribes, did not just "copy" they counted every word and letter to ensure it matched with the original they were copying, this was then checked and confirmed. The earliest know sections date from the mid 2nd century CE, considering John (the last apostle) died around 96 CE that's not a huge time gap. I think that you will find the more you examine the evidence (historical & secular) you will discover its not as "black & white" as you think. My advice is don't be "lazy" and just accept what so called "educated" people tell you, i spent a full 4 years examining the Bible from a historical point of view before i came to my conclusions. But hey ho what do I know?
 
Dogger Bank used to above sea-level - until the last ice-age, which meant that ancient-humans could walk from the top of Scotland to the far east of Asia without getting their feet wet. Would take them a while and they would be a bit knackered once they got there.............

The world is in a constant state of flux as said due to shifting techtonic plates. When....and it is a when......Cumbre Vieja finally erupts and half of La Palma slips into the Atlantic, huge chunks of the coast of any country west of the Canaries will be changed for ever. Such an event millenia ago woud have seemed as a "world" flood as it would affect everything they would have ever known. The flood in the bible may well relate to an actual event passed down verbally until some bright spark learnt to write. Personally I think that the case but the version of that event in the bible is an embellished, allergorical fable. Each to their own.
 
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I would disagree. For me it stands up as a moral guide very well, even the much quoted Ghandi agreed. The Bible is not the problem, we are. The Bible is made up of 66 books 39 in the Hebrew Scriptures & 27 in the Christian Greek. The modern day translations are commonly from a number of sources such as Aramaic Targums, the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Samaritan Torah, the Greek Septuagint, the Latin Vulgate, the Masoretic Text, the Cairo Codex, the Aleppo Codex. Translation of the Bible has always been meticulous (until the KJ version where the divine right of kings was added), in fact Hebrew copyists, or scribes, did not just "copy" they counted every word and letter to ensure it matched with the original they were copying, this was then checked and confirmed. The earliest know sections date from the mid 2nd century CE, considering John (the last apostle) died around 96 CE that's not a huge time gap. I think that you will find the more you examine the evidence (historical & secular) you will discover its not as "black & white" as you think. My advice is don't be "lazy" and just accept what so called "educated" people tell you, i spent a full 4 years examining the Bible from a historical point of view before i came to my conclusions. But hey ho what do I know?
I am not sure about the moral guide standing up to scrutiny. The biblical God is pretty vengeful and there are passages in, I think, Leviticus, but I may be wrong, that lists the offences for which the death penalty is prescribed, homosexuality and swearing at mom and dad, actually I think it is cursing mom and dad, which in biblical terms probably means something a bit different to today's meaning. However, I wouldn't hold that up as an example of worthy morals.

There are other examples as I am sure you are aware, Cane and Abel is anothe rpretty good example of God being, well evil, for want of a better term.
 
I am not sure about the moral guide standing up to scrutiny. The biblical God is pretty vengeful and there are passages in, I think, Leviticus, but I may be wrong, that lists the offences for which the death penalty is prescribed, homosexuality and swearing at mom and dad, actually I think it is cursing mom and dad, which in biblical terms probably means something a bit different to today's meaning. However, I wouldn't hold that up as an example of worthy morals.

There are other examples as I am sure you are aware, Cane and Abel is anothe rpretty good example of God being, well evil, for want of a better term.

You are correct, Leviticus is particularly awful for such stuff - crammed with values you'd be rightly censured for now.
 
I am not sure about the moral guide standing up to scrutiny. The biblical God is pretty vengeful and there are passages in, I think, Leviticus, but I may be wrong, that lists the offences for which the death penalty is prescribed, homosexuality and swearing at mom and dad, actually I think it is cursing mom and dad, which in biblical terms probably means something a bit different to today's meaning. However, I wouldn't hold that up as an example of worthy morals.

There are other examples as I am sure you are aware, Cane and Abel is anothe rpretty good example of God being, well evil, for want of a better term.
Not sure I understated the "Cane & Abel" reference considering Cane smashed his Brothers head in. As for Leviticus some of the rules may seem harsh by today's standards but when you consider what the nations around the Jews were up to, burning your firstborn alive was one of there favorites. You can pick things out willy nilly but the Law Covenant had a purpose, but i'm not here to teach people or "convert" them but to highlight where people are either plainly wrong regarding JW's or misinformed.
 
The biblical God is pretty vengeful
He was a very vengeful b'stard without doubt. Gave us free choice then punished us for exercising our free choice. Repeatedly choosing to create famine, pestilence, plague, and genocide on a massive scale because he was in a bad mood. Chills out a bit later after sacrificing his son to 'save us', but then he didn't sacrifice him because you know rise from teh dead and he's an immortal god anyway....bizarre

I am not sure about the moral guide standing up to scrutiny.
It's horrific from a moral perspective, punishing your own daughter for being raped, in fact the general attitude to women is bad, supports the idea of slavery, promotes a hatred of 'heathens' too.

My advice is don't be "lazy" and just accept what so called "educated" people tell you
It's pretty easy to review the bible and see how little historical evidence there is to support any of it, I don't need other so called educated people to tell me, I can and have reviewed and analysed myself. It's a bag of nonsense.....at best. But like you say each to their own, I utterly respect your right to believe that nonsense isn't nonsense, just as long as you keep it out of impacting other peoples lives.
 
As a practicing JW of 35+ years I doubt your recollection of the conversation. The bible does not say how old the “earth” is & no JW worth there salt would make such a stupid remark. Statement at gen 1:1 “ in the beginning God created the heavens and earth.”. The Earth us over 14 billion years old I see nothing in that verse to say it is not? I find it amusing that people have a “pop” at us whilst knowing a little or nothing about us. As for “selling” I’ve never sold my faith for profit to anyone. Mat 10:8 is clear. Anyway I’m a fool for biting enjoy a bit of self flagellation for free.
Self praise is no recommendation.
r00fie 1:1
 
Unless god is a pseudonym for gravity then I'm going to have to fact check you. There is no heaven, the earth was create by accretion.
 
I don't remember what book in the bible is it? The gospel according to roofie? 😁

On another subject we should really try to be more tolerant of people who have faith in a diety. By and large they will accept the bible for what it is allegorical teaching. You may disagree with the lessons, of course but that should be done in a respectful way. As I said earlier it is incredibly arrogant to assume we know there is no creator.
 
I personally dont believe in God.
I dont need to and so wont invent one.
If, and ok its a BIG IF, if, as a believer I was able to convince you there was NO GOD, once Id left the room , be honest here,would you feel the need to pretend there was still a god, I think that's the crux of the issue, need.
 
The bible was completed about 96CE when the last surviving apostle (John) completed the book of Revelations whilst imprisoned on Patmos. There are some apocryphal additions in the Catholic Bible written later but these are generally discounted and omitted from the recognized Canon.
When I joined the Terriers we all put C of E in the "religion" box.
I often wondered how Bishops and Cardinals could bless our troops being sent to their deaths in foreign wars, then bless them and prey for them - as the coffins returned draped in the Union Flag - being lowered into the ground.

I dont need an omnipotent God to guide how I think and behave. Religion is a straight-jacket to shackle minds and souls. It justifies the powerful and the sacrifice of the many to keep them in their seat.

Incidentally - I have nine bibles - some go back to the early 19th Century. Each revision claims it is the true word of God.

I dont need a bible: I use this instead:


Thought.jpg
I found this many years ago written by a former Army Officer - I have no God nor need for any God, only life itself.(y)
 
Roofie I am not sure God and religion is the same thing. Let's assume there is a creator for a minute. He may have created the universe, gave it a set of rules, let's call them the laws of physics. Then he had a well earned rest. None of this requires religion. He doesn't even have to be omnipotent, just smarter than your average bear.

The Bible and organised religion seem a bit scammy to me to be honest so I get where you are coming from.

I am an atheist and an comfortable being so, but each to their own.
 
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