How desperate the Anti EV liars are getting

There are threads on here every other day on EVs 😅 Either some of these posters are car salesmen or have shares in Tesla the way they go on about them.
It’s trying to counteract lies. As my first posts point out, the sun are on a relentless campaign against EV. I’m happy to address the lies
 
Good points

I really don't have a strong view on EVs, but what I do have strong view on is the EV evangelists ramming their views down everybodies throats at every opportunity, and picking and choosing what "facts" to disseminate, and ignoring contrary "facts"
I think you’re misunderstanding. We only counteract lies and misinformation
 
Lots of new things being discovered on both sides of the argument, we are just finding out the extra weight of the EV's are damaging the roads.
A new study shows EVs put 2.24 times more stress on roads than petrol vehicles so you also have to factor the environmental impact and cost of repairs 👍

Nobby - I'm going to take a long shot here.
Either
1. You have made your mind up
or
2. You are on a wind up

Neither is a good look
 
My insurance is no more, not on any of the two EV's and hybrid, whether insured via the company or personally.
It obviously works for you then, so pleased for you

But what about the others, the majority i suspect from the article, where it isn't ?

Or do you think an article from The Sunday Times is also misinformation / disproportionate bull**** as well ?
 
EVs are still really only an attractive option for three groups: fleet buyers; retired baby boomers who have too much pension and investments; tech bros who go to bed with their cars.
Most people just want a reliable, economical vehicle that goes from A to B without costing an arm and a leg. We are still years away from that for EVs.

https://www.google.com/search?q=ala...ate=ive&vld=cid:3b30c16c,vid:7thvLM-PjUs,st:0
 
I think you’re misunderstanding. We only counteract lies and misinformation
No you don't - you counteract information that you don't believe / choose not to believe / don't want to believe, and ignore information that doesn't suit you.

There is never a balanced argument outlining the pros and cons (not a personal dig by the way - EV evangelists generally). I notice neither you or Andy has attempted to discredit the Sunday Times article - all you've done is deflect, grudgingly accept that insurance is higher, and yet again classed something that doesn't suit the narrative (concern about batteries) as lies

I know I'm not going to change your views, so I'll drop out at this point - I was just providing a bit of balance
 

Nobby - read behind the headline. “Possibly (no more than that) having an impact on pot holes’.

Range Rovers cause far more stress than a Nissan Leaf……..

I’m not saying EV is the answer to anything btw - I’m not bright enough to work it out.
Neither are the vast majority (if not all) on this site ;)
 
It obviously works for you then, so pleased for you

But what about the others, the majority i suspect from the article, where it isn't ?

Or do you think an article from The Sunday Times is also misinformation / disproportionate bull**** as well ?
The article is in the times, and I won't pay for a subscription to that, due to the fact they just make crap up, or try and direct things towards a narrative to suit their audience (old/ far right), it's likely not based on reality, or it's a selected reality not based on a representative selection of the population.

I must know maybe 30 friends with an EV now, about 90% have said they would never go back to ICE, and 10% are half and half, largely due to not having home charging. On my street there's maybe 1/3rd have EV's (all off-road home charging) and everyone seems happy enough with them, nobody has gone back to ICE anyway. I expect my experience and regular discussion with other EV as well as ICE owners is a lot more representative than the average article in the media. Having a financial and numerical job/ background also helps me analyse better than most also.

I've got 1 x BEV (had 2 no total), and got 1 no hybrid (had 1 no total). I own a fleet of ICE vehicles for work (think it's about 7 of them), and have had about 20 ICE cars. I've no bias, if anything my purchasing bias over the last 3 years is to ICE vehicles. All I'm bothered about are the facts, as the finances don't lie.

Where EV's suit, if you tick all these:
Cars < 3 years old
Home charging
<250 miles driving per day (and with a range suited to this)

Where EV's don't suit (in my opinion):
Truck or a van to move heavy gear up and down the country
4wd, with good off road use
Small sports cars
No home or work charging
Buying cars over 3-4 years old (not many EV's about 3-4 years ago, and gen 1 tech).
500 mile daily round trips without stopping (nobody does this)

Debatable:
400 mile daily round trips with stopping, as public network isn't much cheaper than ice fuel
light use vans
Light 4x4 or light off road use
Caravan towing (think this kills range, but it does that with an ICE too)
 
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This "study" doesn't compare like for like. Without seeing the data I'm guessing it's all EVs vs all non-EVs and probably includes old cars on one side and new cars on the other. New cars are more likely to be bigger than old cars because of the trend for SUVs. Actual like for like comparisons are available e.g. a BMW X3 weighs 2,065kg and the electric iX3 weighs 2,255kg which is 9% heavier. So yes, they weigh more and have more of an impact but it's fractionally more and not 2.2x more.
 
he article is in the times, and I won't pay for a subscription to that, due to the fact they just make crap up, or try and direct things towards a narrative to suit their audience (old/ far right), it's likely not based on reality, or it's a selected reality not based on a representative selection of the population
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

FFS man - get a grip - all credibility shot :D

...... and even if you do believe that, that's why I cut and pasted the text for you in my post - or did you choose not to read the bit that followed the words "The text as it's behind a paywall"
 
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

FFS man - get a grip - all credibility shot :D

...... and even if you do believe that, that's why I cut and pasted the text for you in my post - or did you choose not to read the bit that followed the words "The text as it's behind a paywall"
You're telling me the times isn't aimed at the right?
You're telling me the right/ newspapers aren't largely the older end of the population, and they create stories to suit that demographic?
What evidence is there, that this is not the case?

I didn't read the rest of what you posted (didn't even see your original post), as I was responding to other posters, and just clicked on the notifications. All I saw was you and ST arguing about an article in the times, I didn't expect you to have quoted the full article (if that's what you did, I've no way of checking). I first saw this, and didn't click to expand, but what ST writes about EV's is usually factual, so I trust his summary. He's got previous for that, up to now, all I know about you is you read the times and pay for a subscription seemingly.

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I'll have a look at what the original post said, my bet is I've heard it all before.
 
It’s trying to counteract lies. As my first posts point out, the sun are on a relentless campaign against EV. I’m happy to address the lies
Maybe take it up with the Sun then? I personally don't read the Sun, so haven't seen such lies or misinformation.

There are plenty of reasons for and against them both ways & everyone has their own opinion on them. Especially on whether it would suit their lives. People rarely change, but anyway, if you think you can dispel the lies, do your thing.
 
Just trying to help people out, didn't realise it was a crime or you needed to be a salesman or have shares to do that?

For avoidance of doubt, I'm not a car salesman, but do run a fleet of vehicles for work (none of those are EV) and have three of my own vehicles, one BEV, one PHEV and one ICE. I've had 2 BEV's and ~20 ICE cars personally. Don't have Tesla shares, other than through S&P 500 and "All world", but equally that invests me in BP, Texaco, Ford, Toyota and whoever else.

EV drivers are the only ones with any experience and are massively outnumbered, so I don't mind providing a counter argument for the 5-10%.
I never said it was a crime or that you couldn't do it. It was just a general reply to another post, like yours. It wasn't even to you in any case.

Backing up another opinion is fine, but there was another huge thread on such. So it gets a bit repetitive do you not think?
 
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

FFS man - get a grip - all credibility shot :D

...... and even if you do believe that, that's why I cut and pasted the text for you in my post - or did you choose not to read the bit that followed the words "The text as it's behind a paywall"
Ok, brief replies to the article:

Hard to get cover: bull****
What's the equivalent diesel to a model Y? They only do X cars as diesel and the closest on to the Y is probably the X4, which is 8k more to buy than the Model Y, for the 20d which is slow. The 30d is 20k more to buy.
27% more insurance for same model? What model? Usually the EV's are far higher spec/ performance.
Insurance for all cars is going up, largely as IPT came in, and due to 11% inflation on top of this.
Actually mentions the X3 M40d, this isn't equivalent to a model Y, it's a 3 series FFs. It's also 62k! 20k more to buy!
New electrics ~10% more to insure on average, sure, as they cost about 10% more, albeit the average EV purchase will be far higher than the average ICE, as EV's have been targeted at exec and upper market first, tesla didn't start with the model 2 or model 1 first etc, they're still to come.
Sure a model Y battery costing 7-10k likely won't be repaired by tesla if it's battered, but neither will bmw be repairing the 7-10k engine in an X4 diesel x drive.
The tax benefit on EV's isn't being withdrawn, tax on electric is same as it was, tax on ICE fuel goes up every year. Next to no BIK on EV's too, which is extremely important to companies.
Only 16% of mechanics can work on EV's but any dealer will fix their own cars, most will be in warranty, so would only be dealer repair anyway. Jono's MOT shop won't be allowed anywhere near it, like they wouldn't any new car in warranty.
Would love to know how many batteries have been damaged by speed bumps and kerbs :LOL:
No idea where they get 14k-29k for a battery from.
Battery degradation is covered by warranty, the warranties are ~5-10 years, they won't be covered after this by insurers, as insurers don't cover wear an tear, like they wouldn't a car with 80k miles etc.
Higher chance of loosing control, because of torque? WTF. The motors have far more control than a diff on an ICE, never mind they ALL have traction control as well as other sensors. Higher power cars are harder to drive, if people can't handle them don't get a quick car, or don't put their foot down, ICE or EV. Can limit the power output in an EV though, just by selecting range mode, but it's boring.
Axa Swizlerland? WTF.
No EV courtesy car, who cares? Anyone driving an EV likely won't start crying if they have to drive an ICE for a week. Most insurers don't give like for like now on any type of car, same as dealers don't on warranty repairs.
Cover charging cables? WTF, mine is worth about £20, and I use a commando socket for a wall box which is about £30. A wall box would be covered by the wall box company or even house insurance.
Agree on do the research, figure out what miles you do, and what you can charge at home, and compare the ICE to EV fuel costs on an EV suited tarriff.
Range anxiety, largely a myth, or something which you realise is not really a thing after a few weeks.
It's not "advised range", it's WLTP range, it's calculated based on use and conditions, it's fairly accurate for summer, but allow maybe 10% less in most of winter, and maybe 20% when below freezing (hardly ever during the day).
The MPG figures on ICE cars are misleading too, if BMW say it's 50mpg on the info, my bet is you will get closer to 40mpg real world if you work it out (most don't do this). Will be more in summer, less in winter.
Hybrids are good, we have one, our lass gets to work and back on the 30 mile charge. Effectively she's driving round in a 30 mile range EV, and only puts petrol in maybe once every couple of months.

Largely the article reads like it's trying to guide a narrative, fishing for problems which largely aren't there or not really considering like for like scenarios.

Having an article take than many words to "prove" EV insurance being "more" is poor, especially when the first thing they do is compare unalike cars, which are then even more expensive than the EV anyway, laughable.
 
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Calling it a year on year % reduction for BEV might be correct, just, but for plug in market share it's not.

But in either case, I would look at the longer term data, as it's the long term trends which are more important, draw a trend line between all the points etc. The charts were never going to be linear in growth, and will also be subject to outside factors (availability of EV's for the past couple of years being a big problem).

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Also, don't forget, a lot of the early adopters already have their EV's, and have probably only had them 1-2 years, there won't be many taking on their second or third etc. The "non early adopters" will just take longer to learn how it works basically.
Andy, ST corrected Loop. The data showed Loop was correct. I merely pointed this out. It’s not a value judgement on EV’s. I actually have one on order, but will fully misinterpreting data will only harm your cause.
 
Andy, ST corrected Loop. The data showed Loop was correct. I merely pointed this out. It’s not a value judgement on EV’s. I actually have one on order, but will fully misinterpreting data will only harm your cause.
All depends how you interpret the data, just because you have an EV doesn't mean you've interpreted it correctly (same as what I'm saying). I provided reasons why I believe it's wrong to just go off the generic year on year assumption, especially when EV manufacturers have not been able to meet demand.

I could have pointed out that since Jan, for 2023, the trend line has been up, but I didn't as it's less relevant compared to long term data and trends.

Lets see what the trend line is over the next few years.
 
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