SmallTown
Well-known member
LieEV's are worse for the environment than combustion engines when you take into consideration the battery... precious metals manufacture and disposal etc.
If you were serious about climate change you wouldn't have one
How desperate the Anti EV liars are getting
- Thread starter SmallTown
- Start date
Nobby_Barnes
Well-known member
If you base your answer on carbon emissions alone, EVs win by a landslide. If you’re taking a more holistic approach, though, the answer is different...
I know it might not be easy for you, but you need to be looking at the bigger picture
Malaguena
Well-known member
Presume you think this is all lies as well ?
www.thetimes.co.uk
The text as it's behind a paywall
Why does electric car insurance cost so much?
Battery prices, a shortage of mechanics and a rise in write-offs mean that you may find it hard to get cover at all
A Tesla Model Y costs on average £1,421 to insure, almost 80 per cent more than the equivalent BMW diesel car, according to Confused.com and Auto Trader
George Nixon
Sunday October 08 2023, 12.03am, The Sunday Times
Drivers are paying up to 27 per cent more to insure an electric car than a petrol or diesel version of the same model. Some firms have refused to insure them because of the difficulty of repairs and the cost of replacements.
Insurance costs in general have risen as car parts and labour have become more expensive, but electric car insurance has gone up the most. The average comprehensive car policy cost a record £511 at the end of June, 21 per cent more than a year earlier, according to the Association of British Insurers. But the comparison site Confused.com said that premiums for electric cars were up 72 per cent in the year to September, compared with a 29 per cent rise for petrol and diesel cars.
Confused looked at the average cost of insuring four popular electric cars and their petrol or diesel versions. Comprehensive insurance for a Jaguar F-Pace cost an average of £801, compared with £1,013 for an electric Jaguar I-Pace — 27 per cent more.
Confused said that it cost £1,421 on average to insure a Tesla Model Y, almost 80 per cent more than the average £799 cost of insuring an equivalent petrol or diesel car, such as the BMW X3 M40d.
The average annual premium for a new electric car was £959, while the average for petrol and diesel cars was £848.
Covéa, the firm that underwrites policies for John Lewis, is no longer offering cover for electric cars. John Lewis said: “Our underwriter has temporarily paused offering new policies and renewals on fully electric vehicles while it analyses the risks and costs.”
Aviva stopped insuring the Tesla Model Y for a few months this year. It did not say why and is now covering it again. Reuters reported in March that car experts had said that the battery pack in the model, the UK’s biggest-selling electric car last year, had “zero repairability” if it was damaged.
Not a smooth journey
More than 267,000 new electric cars were sold in the UK last year — a 40 per cent increase on 2021 and up from 37,850 sold in 2019. They accounted for 16.5 per cent of all new cars sold, according to the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders.
But some experts think that this trend could go into reverse as the cost of going green increases. Electric cars are more expensive than petrol. The Vauxhall Mokka electric is £38,985 — 31 per cent more than the £29,880 for its petrol equivalent, according to the car website Auto Trader.
Many of the tax breaks and perks of going electric are being withdrawn. The government scheme that cut the price of a home charger by £350 ended in March and the exemption from road tax ends in April 2025.
Jo Lloyd from the insurer Axa said: “Electric vehicles are more complex than vehicles with a standard internal combustion engine and this means the cost of repairs are often higher, which is a significant factor for insurers when setting premiums.”
Insurers have become concerned about the cost of electric car repairs and a lack of qualified mechanics. Only 16 per cent of mechanics can work on electric vehicles, the Institute of the Motor Industry (IMI) said. It warned that there could be a shortfall of 35,700 mechanics qualified to work with electric vehicles by 2035. A government-funded report by the research company Thatcham said that it expected insurance premiums to rise further as insurers became more aware of the risks and costs of covering electric cars.
The insurer LV said that the average cost of an electric car claim was £2,789 last year, compared with£2,188 for a petrol or diesel car. The Association of British Insurers also said that electric car repairs take 14 per cent longer on average.
Why so much more expensive?
Batteries are a big reason for this. Often located at the bottom of the car, they can be damaged if you go too fast over a speed bump or too hard off a curb.
Thatcham estimated that about 9,400 cars were involved in an accident that resulted in battery damage last year (there are no official figures). This could be 260,000 a year by 2035, it said.
Damaged batteries are hard to repair and usually need to be replaced. Typically the most expensive part of the vehicle, they can cost anything from £14,200 to £29,500.
Because of the rate of depreciation on new cars, the cost of replacing a battery on a one-year-old vehicle could be more than the car is worth, Thatcham said, and so there is more chance of an insurer declaring it a write-off. In that case the firm will offer what it deems to be the market value, minus the driver’s excess.
“There is already a lack of affordable or available repair solutions, inadequate post-accident diagnostics, and limited availability of recycling and reusability options. Without meaningful change, there is a strong likelihood that [insurance] claims costs will continue to rise disproportionally,” Thatcham said.
Insurers are also concerned about battery degradation and how to account for it in their policy costs. Most batteries have an expected lifespan of 10 to 20 years.
Another issue is the weight of electric cars, which are 300 to 500 kilograms heavier than petrol or diesel equivalents. More weight means more force, which means more damage in a crash.
Electric cars also have a higher chance of losing control because they produce instant torque (power to the wheel axles). If a driver pushes too hard on the accelerator and then lifts their foot off, they can lose control.
“This high torque can result in unwanted, jerky acceleration,” Michael Pfaffli from Axa Switzerland said. A study by the insurer last year suggested that electric vehicles crashed 50 per cent more often than petrol or diesel ones because of what it called “overtapping”.
Check the small print on your car policy in case your vehicle does end up in the workshop — your insurance firm may not provide you with a like-for-like courtesy car. According to the financial ratings company Defaqto, some 94 per cent of car insurance policies do not provide an electric or hybrid courtesy car.
An electric car could also have implications for your home insurance. If you have an at-home charger, you may have to declare it on your home policy.
Defaqto said that 51 per cent of car insurance policies either do not cover charging cables or do not clearly define whether they do, while 70 per cent did not cover the charger.
The ABI said: “The motor insurance market remains competitive with cover for electric vehicles available from a wide range of providers. Whether to offer insurance, and at what price, is a commercial decision for insurers based on their risk appetite.”
Should you go electric?
If you are looking to go electric, do your research first. Consider not just the upfront cost of the car but the price of insurance and installing a charger, and how you will charge the vehicle if you can’t do it at home.
Find out whether your company offers electric cars through a salary sacrifice scheme. If it does, check that it offers value for money.
Range anxiety — the worry about running out of charge when you’re driving — puts many drivers off. While car manufacturers promote an “advertised” range, this can be optimistic. Use sites such as WhatCar to get an idea of the real range and remember that factors such as the weather can influence it — both hot and cold weather will drain the battery more quickly.
A hybrid model could be a good option if you’re not sure.
Why does electric car insurance cost so much?
Battery prices, a shortage of mechanics and a rise in write-offs mean that you may find it hard to get cover at all
www.thetimes.co.uk
The text as it's behind a paywall
Why does electric car insurance cost so much?
Battery prices, a shortage of mechanics and a rise in write-offs mean that you may find it hard to get cover at all
A Tesla Model Y costs on average £1,421 to insure, almost 80 per cent more than the equivalent BMW diesel car, according to Confused.com and Auto Trader
George Nixon
Sunday October 08 2023, 12.03am, The Sunday Times
Drivers are paying up to 27 per cent more to insure an electric car than a petrol or diesel version of the same model. Some firms have refused to insure them because of the difficulty of repairs and the cost of replacements.
Insurance costs in general have risen as car parts and labour have become more expensive, but electric car insurance has gone up the most. The average comprehensive car policy cost a record £511 at the end of June, 21 per cent more than a year earlier, according to the Association of British Insurers. But the comparison site Confused.com said that premiums for electric cars were up 72 per cent in the year to September, compared with a 29 per cent rise for petrol and diesel cars.
Confused looked at the average cost of insuring four popular electric cars and their petrol or diesel versions. Comprehensive insurance for a Jaguar F-Pace cost an average of £801, compared with £1,013 for an electric Jaguar I-Pace — 27 per cent more.
Confused said that it cost £1,421 on average to insure a Tesla Model Y, almost 80 per cent more than the average £799 cost of insuring an equivalent petrol or diesel car, such as the BMW X3 M40d.
The average annual premium for a new electric car was £959, while the average for petrol and diesel cars was £848.
Covéa, the firm that underwrites policies for John Lewis, is no longer offering cover for electric cars. John Lewis said: “Our underwriter has temporarily paused offering new policies and renewals on fully electric vehicles while it analyses the risks and costs.”
Aviva stopped insuring the Tesla Model Y for a few months this year. It did not say why and is now covering it again. Reuters reported in March that car experts had said that the battery pack in the model, the UK’s biggest-selling electric car last year, had “zero repairability” if it was damaged.
Not a smooth journey
More than 267,000 new electric cars were sold in the UK last year — a 40 per cent increase on 2021 and up from 37,850 sold in 2019. They accounted for 16.5 per cent of all new cars sold, according to the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders.
But some experts think that this trend could go into reverse as the cost of going green increases. Electric cars are more expensive than petrol. The Vauxhall Mokka electric is £38,985 — 31 per cent more than the £29,880 for its petrol equivalent, according to the car website Auto Trader.
Many of the tax breaks and perks of going electric are being withdrawn. The government scheme that cut the price of a home charger by £350 ended in March and the exemption from road tax ends in April 2025.
Jo Lloyd from the insurer Axa said: “Electric vehicles are more complex than vehicles with a standard internal combustion engine and this means the cost of repairs are often higher, which is a significant factor for insurers when setting premiums.”
Insurers have become concerned about the cost of electric car repairs and a lack of qualified mechanics. Only 16 per cent of mechanics can work on electric vehicles, the Institute of the Motor Industry (IMI) said. It warned that there could be a shortfall of 35,700 mechanics qualified to work with electric vehicles by 2035. A government-funded report by the research company Thatcham said that it expected insurance premiums to rise further as insurers became more aware of the risks and costs of covering electric cars.
The insurer LV said that the average cost of an electric car claim was £2,789 last year, compared with£2,188 for a petrol or diesel car. The Association of British Insurers also said that electric car repairs take 14 per cent longer on average.
Why so much more expensive?
Batteries are a big reason for this. Often located at the bottom of the car, they can be damaged if you go too fast over a speed bump or too hard off a curb.
Thatcham estimated that about 9,400 cars were involved in an accident that resulted in battery damage last year (there are no official figures). This could be 260,000 a year by 2035, it said.
Damaged batteries are hard to repair and usually need to be replaced. Typically the most expensive part of the vehicle, they can cost anything from £14,200 to £29,500.
Because of the rate of depreciation on new cars, the cost of replacing a battery on a one-year-old vehicle could be more than the car is worth, Thatcham said, and so there is more chance of an insurer declaring it a write-off. In that case the firm will offer what it deems to be the market value, minus the driver’s excess.
“There is already a lack of affordable or available repair solutions, inadequate post-accident diagnostics, and limited availability of recycling and reusability options. Without meaningful change, there is a strong likelihood that [insurance] claims costs will continue to rise disproportionally,” Thatcham said.
Insurers are also concerned about battery degradation and how to account for it in their policy costs. Most batteries have an expected lifespan of 10 to 20 years.
Another issue is the weight of electric cars, which are 300 to 500 kilograms heavier than petrol or diesel equivalents. More weight means more force, which means more damage in a crash.
Electric cars also have a higher chance of losing control because they produce instant torque (power to the wheel axles). If a driver pushes too hard on the accelerator and then lifts their foot off, they can lose control.
“This high torque can result in unwanted, jerky acceleration,” Michael Pfaffli from Axa Switzerland said. A study by the insurer last year suggested that electric vehicles crashed 50 per cent more often than petrol or diesel ones because of what it called “overtapping”.
Check the small print on your car policy in case your vehicle does end up in the workshop — your insurance firm may not provide you with a like-for-like courtesy car. According to the financial ratings company Defaqto, some 94 per cent of car insurance policies do not provide an electric or hybrid courtesy car.
An electric car could also have implications for your home insurance. If you have an at-home charger, you may have to declare it on your home policy.
Defaqto said that 51 per cent of car insurance policies either do not cover charging cables or do not clearly define whether they do, while 70 per cent did not cover the charger.
The ABI said: “The motor insurance market remains competitive with cover for electric vehicles available from a wide range of providers. Whether to offer insurance, and at what price, is a commercial decision for insurers based on their risk appetite.”
Should you go electric?
If you are looking to go electric, do your research first. Consider not just the upfront cost of the car but the price of insurance and installing a charger, and how you will charge the vehicle if you can’t do it at home.
Find out whether your company offers electric cars through a salary sacrifice scheme. If it does, check that it offers value for money.
Range anxiety — the worry about running out of charge when you’re driving — puts many drivers off. While car manufacturers promote an “advertised” range, this can be optimistic. Use sites such as WhatCar to get an idea of the real range and remember that factors such as the weather can influence it — both hot and cold weather will drain the battery more quickly.
A hybrid model could be a good option if you’re not sure.
Andy_W
Well-known member
Calling it a year on year % reduction for BEV might be correct, just, but for plug in market share it's not.
But in either case, I would look at the longer term data, as it's the long term trends which are more important, draw a trend line between all the points etc. The charts were never going to be linear in growth, and will also be subject to outside factors (availability of EV's for the past couple of years being a big problem).
Also, don't forget, a lot of the early adopters already have their EV's, and have probably only had them 1-2 years, there won't be many taking on their second or third etc. The "non early adopters" will just take longer to learn how it works basically.
Merrykoala
Well-known member
I'm on the cusp of getting one, can get an i4 m sport through the salary sacrifice scheme at work for £550 a month which includes insurance, the only thing stopping me pulling the trigger is the charging situation as I can charge it at work but I love on a street house with no charging point or way to install one and work from home most of the time. The cost of charging at public points is higher than charging overnight at home as well.
Andy_W
Well-known member
The holistic approach you mention has been proven factually incorrect though. The one study where all this comes from didn't take full life cycle into account, which the author actually noted as a key point. It was also based on an EV lasting 100,000 miles, but they've already been proven to last practically 2x this for the battery (and even then the battery is still 70-80%, and the motor nearer 4x in most cases.If you base your answer on carbon emissions alone, EVs win by a landslide. If you’re taking a more holistic approach, though, the answer is different...
I know it might not be easy for you, but you need to be looking at the bigger picture
Also, the study didn't factor that EV batteries get re-used in grid storage, home storage, or recycled to be used again.
Also didn't factor that there are much more efficient ways of separating out lithium and cobalt now, from the ore, or from other metals and plastics as part of recycling.
Andy_W
Well-known member
How often do you go to work, and how long for?
How many miles do you do?
If you're there 10 hours and can charge at 7kW, then this is pretty much a full charge, which will be about 250 miles in one of those. Do that once a week and you should be alright, for 12k miles per year.
If your work has 11kW, 22kW etc then even better, if not see if they can get some put in.
Nobby_Barnes
Well-known member
Lots of new things being discovered on both sides of the argument, we are just finding out the extra weight of the EV's are damaging the roads.
A new study shows EVs put 2.24 times more stress on roads than petrol vehicles so you also have to factor the environmental impact and cost of repairs
SmallTown
Well-known member
I would say go for it. If it’s the edrive 40. If I could have afforded it that would have been my car of choice. I have a car with a shorter range than that and I cope well without a home charger. My commute is 110 miles round trip
SmallTown
Well-known member
The last bit “under the should I go electric” banner whilst not being out and out lies (ok, range anxiety is) is a rehashing of people’s concerns of EV dressed up as advice. So it’s dishonest at bestPresume you think this is all lies as well ?
Why does electric car insurance cost so much?
Battery prices, a shortage of mechanics and a rise in write-offs mean that you may find it hard to get cover at all
The text as it's behind a paywall
Why does electric car insurance cost so much?
Battery prices, a shortage of mechanics and a rise in write-offs mean that you may find it hard to get cover at all
A Tesla Model Y costs on average £1,421 to insure, almost 80 per cent more than the equivalent BMW diesel car, according to Confused.com and Auto Trader
George Nixon
Sunday October 08 2023, 12.03am, The Sunday Times
Drivers are paying up to 27 per cent more to insure an electric car than a petrol or diesel version of the same model. Some firms have refused to insure them because of the difficulty of repairs and the cost of replacements.
Insurance costs in general have risen as car parts and labour have become more expensive, but electric car insurance has gone up the most. The average comprehensive car policy cost a record £511 at the end of June, 21 per cent more than a year earlier, according to the Association of British Insurers. But the comparison site Confused.com said that premiums for electric cars were up 72 per cent in the year to September, compared with a 29 per cent rise for petrol and diesel cars.
Confused looked at the average cost of insuring four popular electric cars and their petrol or diesel versions. Comprehensive insurance for a Jaguar F-Pace cost an average of £801, compared with £1,013 for an electric Jaguar I-Pace — 27 per cent more.
Confused said that it cost £1,421 on average to insure a Tesla Model Y, almost 80 per cent more than the average £799 cost of insuring an equivalent petrol or diesel car, such as the BMW X3 M40d.
The average annual premium for a new electric car was £959, while the average for petrol and diesel cars was £848.
Covéa, the firm that underwrites policies for John Lewis, is no longer offering cover for electric cars. John Lewis said: “Our underwriter has temporarily paused offering new policies and renewals on fully electric vehicles while it analyses the risks and costs.”
Aviva stopped insuring the Tesla Model Y for a few months this year. It did not say why and is now covering it again. Reuters reported in March that car experts had said that the battery pack in the model, the UK’s biggest-selling electric car last year, had “zero repairability” if it was damaged.
Not a smooth journey
More than 267,000 new electric cars were sold in the UK last year — a 40 per cent increase on 2021 and up from 37,850 sold in 2019. They accounted for 16.5 per cent of all new cars sold, according to the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders.
But some experts think that this trend could go into reverse as the cost of going green increases. Electric cars are more expensive than petrol. The Vauxhall Mokka electric is £38,985 — 31 per cent more than the £29,880 for its petrol equivalent, according to the car website Auto Trader.
Many of the tax breaks and perks of going electric are being withdrawn. The government scheme that cut the price of a home charger by £350 ended in March and the exemption from road tax ends in April 2025.
Jo Lloyd from the insurer Axa said: “Electric vehicles are more complex than vehicles with a standard internal combustion engine and this means the cost of repairs are often higher, which is a significant factor for insurers when setting premiums.”
Insurers have become concerned about the cost of electric car repairs and a lack of qualified mechanics. Only 16 per cent of mechanics can work on electric vehicles, the Institute of the Motor Industry (IMI) said. It warned that there could be a shortfall of 35,700 mechanics qualified to work with electric vehicles by 2035. A government-funded report by the research company Thatcham said that it expected insurance premiums to rise further as insurers became more aware of the risks and costs of covering electric cars.
The insurer LV said that the average cost of an electric car claim was £2,789 last year, compared with£2,188 for a petrol or diesel car. The Association of British Insurers also said that electric car repairs take 14 per cent longer on average.
Why so much more expensive?
Batteries are a big reason for this. Often located at the bottom of the car, they can be damaged if you go too fast over a speed bump or too hard off a curb.
Thatcham estimated that about 9,400 cars were involved in an accident that resulted in battery damage last year (there are no official figures). This could be 260,000 a year by 2035, it said.
Damaged batteries are hard to repair and usually need to be replaced. Typically the most expensive part of the vehicle, they can cost anything from £14,200 to £29,500.
Because of the rate of depreciation on new cars, the cost of replacing a battery on a one-year-old vehicle could be more than the car is worth, Thatcham said, and so there is more chance of an insurer declaring it a write-off. In that case the firm will offer what it deems to be the market value, minus the driver’s excess.
“There is already a lack of affordable or available repair solutions, inadequate post-accident diagnostics, and limited availability of recycling and reusability options. Without meaningful change, there is a strong likelihood that [insurance] claims costs will continue to rise disproportionally,” Thatcham said.
Insurers are also concerned about battery degradation and how to account for it in their policy costs. Most batteries have an expected lifespan of 10 to 20 years.
Another issue is the weight of electric cars, which are 300 to 500 kilograms heavier than petrol or diesel equivalents. More weight means more force, which means more damage in a crash.
Electric cars also have a higher chance of losing control because they produce instant torque (power to the wheel axles). If a driver pushes too hard on the accelerator and then lifts their foot off, they can lose control.
“This high torque can result in unwanted, jerky acceleration,” Michael Pfaffli from Axa Switzerland said. A study by the insurer last year suggested that electric vehicles crashed 50 per cent more often than petrol or diesel ones because of what it called “overtapping”.
Check the small print on your car policy in case your vehicle does end up in the workshop — your insurance firm may not provide you with a like-for-like courtesy car. According to the financial ratings company Defaqto, some 94 per cent of car insurance policies do not provide an electric or hybrid courtesy car.
An electric car could also have implications for your home insurance. If you have an at-home charger, you may have to declare it on your home policy.
Defaqto said that 51 per cent of car insurance policies either do not cover charging cables or do not clearly define whether they do, while 70 per cent did not cover the charger.
The ABI said: “The motor insurance market remains competitive with cover for electric vehicles available from a wide range of providers. Whether to offer insurance, and at what price, is a commercial decision for insurers based on their risk appetite.”
Should you go electric?
If you are looking to go electric, do your research first. Consider not just the upfront cost of the car but the price of insurance and installing a charger, and how you will charge the vehicle if you can’t do it at home.
Find out whether your company offers electric cars through a salary sacrifice scheme. If it does, check that it offers value for money.
Range anxiety — the worry about running out of charge when you’re driving — puts many drivers off. While car manufacturers promote an “advertised” range, this can be optimistic. Use sites such as WhatCar to get an idea of the real range and remember that factors such as the weather can influence it — both hot and cold weather will drain the battery more quickly.
A hybrid model could be a good option if you’re not sure.
Andy_W
Well-known member
Yeah, that was it, for the main part! Cheers!
Seen a few other things since, once I looked into it a bit more, as it raised a lot of things I hadn't even thought of.
You know why we have to have the movement, because you know why stories about EV's keep getting made up or dramatised, as it doesn't suit the narrative of the big oil companies, the right or far right etc.
Also, loads of the papers are only bought by old/ far right people, so they're naturally going to make up crap to suit what crap their readers want to eat.
Someone has been drinking the big oil kool aid that's for sureLots of new things being discovered on both sides of the argument, we are just finding out the extra weight of the EV's are damaging the roads.
A new study shows EVs put 2.24 times more stress on roads than petrol vehicles so you also have to factor the environmental impact and cost of repairs
Malaguena
Well-known member
..
So, what about the 95% of the article re insurance, repairs, batteries then ?
If I had a mortgage I'd have bet it that that would be the point you'd pick up and ignore the rest
So, what about the 95% of the article re insurance, repairs, batteries then ?
Billy69_uk
Well-known member
its quite simple. If you want an EV, then go buy one.
If you dont want one, then dont buy one.
The issues are arising when people are forcing their opinions on too others.
My own opinion is that emotion and not fact is driving legislation, especially at a local level with all these ridiculous ULEZ and LEZ's.
If you are going to ban polluting vehicles to improve air quality, then ban them, dont allow drivers/operators to pay to pollute.
Its like banning smoking in restaurants but allowing people to spark up if they pay a £10 smoking surcharge.
If you dont want one, then dont buy one.
The issues are arising when people are forcing their opinions on too others.
My own opinion is that emotion and not fact is driving legislation, especially at a local level with all these ridiculous ULEZ and LEZ's.
If you are going to ban polluting vehicles to improve air quality, then ban them, dont allow drivers/operators to pay to pollute.
Its like banning smoking in restaurants but allowing people to spark up if they pay a £10 smoking surcharge.
Malaguena
Well-known member
Good points
I really don't have a strong view on EVs, but what I do have strong view on is the EV evangelists ramming their views down everybodies throats at every opportunity, and picking and choosing what "facts" to disseminate, and ignoring contrary "facts"
Andy_W
Well-known member
My insurance is no more, not on any of the two EV's and hybrid, whether insured via the company or personally.
Largely you pay more to insure a higher value vehicle anyway though, and they are worth more, but even if this does make them 20% more to insure (assumed figure), then what is this adding on, £1-200 a year? That's not going to alter the TCO calculation much at all.
That's also assuming this is even if it's true, which being in the times, probably isn't.
Loop
Well-known member
There are threads on here every other day on EVs
Either some of these posters are car salesmen or have shares in Tesla the way they go on about them.
Andy_W
Well-known member
It's not ramming down a view, it's providing experience to those who have zero of it, and who are getting their heads filled with a disproportionate amount of bull****.
There are only 5-10% EV drivers, so you're likely to hear a lot more from those who are, to provide some actual factual reality, to the 90-95% who have zero experience.
Andy_W
Well-known member
Just trying to help people out, didn't realise it was a crime or you needed to be a salesman or have shares to do that?There are threads on here every other day on EVs
For avoidance of doubt, I'm not a car salesman, but do run a fleet of vehicles for work (none of those are EV) and have three of my own vehicles, one BEV, one PHEV and one ICE. I've had 2 BEV's and ~20 ICE cars personally. Don't have Tesla shares, other than through S&P 500 and "All world", but equally that invests me in BP, Texaco, Ford, Toyota and whoever else.
EV drivers are the only ones with any experience and are massively outnumbered, so I don't mind providing a counter argument for the 5-10%.
SmallTown
Well-known member
Sorry about your house! Yes insurance is higher. I agree. Hopefully that will come down once all the misinformation about batteries goes away