Hopes of Herd Immunity dashed - major study

I expect everyone to sacrifice something, yes. The societies that have handled this better have been the ones that have been playing by the rules, isolating where told to do so. Our government has mishandled the track and trace issue spectacularly, making it much harder to resolve, I accept that. It means its harder on us all. Would you expect a 21 yr old living with his parents, one who has C.O.P.D to be mega careful for a few more month or be out on the razz risking bringing home the virus? How do any of us know whether we may have an underlying condition. I dare say a good few don’t given the lack of screening at present. I really do not think asking everyone to be careful, social distance and don’t be a selfish d1ck for upwards of another 3-9 months is such an unfair huge ask. It is then up to government to make sure the younger groups can make up for lost time.

I would start by lower retirement age to create jobs for the young enabling more to choose to retire earlier where they can. Scrap HS2 and provide more low cost affordable housing for the young. Increase taxation and fund construction to improve social connectivity and social mobility that would encourage industry to the North. Lots of things can be done to level up for the younger generations across the UK. The post covid years should focus on creating jobs and wealth for the young, and the older poor. Society needs to bring about a more even distribution of wealth. Those in power though are the real problem, whatever colour the rosette is.
Agree with a lot of that but do you expect 6 year olds to make sacrifices with their mental health? Even though there is little scientific evidence to suggest they suffer from it OR even spread it?

If only it was only 3-9 months. This is going to go on for years. Its been 8 months already!

"How do any of us know whether we may have an underlying condition." - We don't, but there comes a point where we have to start playing the odds and living our lives again. We can't get through this without taking risks. That said, if anyone *wants* to mostly stay at home and play a straight bat, fair play to them too, up to them.
 
I fully agree. But I can't really see why some of 'the old' don't want the youth to keep the economy moving and afloat while this is all going on. Sadly, I just see a lot of envy. "If they can go out boozing why can't I" etc etc. But the youth (or even the government) have not created these 'odds' regarding the virus, biology has.

Don’t get me wrong, of course the economy has to be kept ticking over, the young are best placed to do that. I am not against pubs and bars opening and a responsible safe way of them operating. The problem though is alcohol. The more you drink, the more you lose your inhibitions, the more the risk increases. Many households have 3 generations within and those households will have it tougher. I do not support the governments attempts and random tiering setting local areas to operate differently may seem sensible at first glance, but causes resentment as differing rules apply from area to area. A fair balance is needed and prefer Labours all or nothing in short circuit breakers as we are all seen to be in it together. A scientific balance is fair. I am all for younger folk having more freedom if it was then used responsibly.
 
Don’t get me wrong, of course the economy has to be kept ticking over, the young are best placed to do that. I am not against pubs and bars opening and a responsible safe way of them operating. The problem though is alcohol. The more you drink, the more you lose your inhibitions, the more the risk increases. Many households have 3 generations within and those households will have it tougher. I do not support the governments attempts and random tiering setting local areas to operate differently may seem sensible at first glance, but causes resentment as differing rules apply from area to area. A fair balance is needed and prefer Labours all or nothing in short circuit breakers as we are all seen to be in it together. A scientific balance is fair. I am all for younger folk having more freedom if it was then used responsibly.
Again I agree with most of what you say. I'm not convinced though that alcohol is the main cause of the second spike. Pubs reopened in early July and it wasn't until September that we started seeing spikes again. Other countries are all having second waves, most of them don't have anything like the same drinking culture as us.

I'm sure we can agree that politicians who won't even wear masks in public and follow their own rules are the people we should be most angry at.
 
Again I agree with most of what you say. I'm not convinced though that alcohol is the main cause of the second spike. Pubs reopened in early July and it wasn't until September that we started seeing spikes again. Other countries are all having second waves, most of them don't have anything like the same drinking culture as us.

I'm sure we can agree that politicians who won't even wear masks in public and follow their own rules are the people we should be most angry at.

I agree that alcohol is not the cause in itself, but it is a vehicle. That said there are scientists who have suggested that alcohol weakens and may in some cases destroy the virus membranes. Mouthwash may even help. The presence of alcohol in venues like bars and restaurants is a social activity that brings people together in environments that may allow the virus to potentially spread. Alcohol however does reduce inhibitions and peoples guard does slip. If it is ok for a pub to open if you have a meal, then it should be for a drink too. Responsibility is key. The 10pm curfew is bonkers as everyone spills out together and congregates in the streets or causes people to group in doors in less covid safe environments. Totally agree re politicians, they are a poor self entitled bunch in every feasible way, across all sides of the house too.
 
The virus arrived well before we saw the first spike, travel from China went on as normal, plenty of people skiing and returning with the virus from Italy, winter breaks to Spain were going ahead.

A lot more people in this country have had it than have been reported, and many early cases will have been brushed off by GPs as viral chest infections.

Had we a capable government testing for antibodies would have been up and running at an early stage together with tests for infection. We're still not organised and the disease has been here for a long time, first denied by the government, then by others across the wider general public.
 
Pubs reopened in early July and it wasn't until September that we started seeing spikes again.
a) there is a lag from a change in behaviour to increased infections
b) the numbers accelerate exponentially when those behaviour changes settle in and more so as people relax their social distancing, handwashing, bubbling

i.e. you would always expect a couple of months lag from re-opening pubs to an inevitable increase in infections. We also now have the double whammy of kids returning to school which is why we have such a big increase now
 
As an individual example, I tested positive for the virus at the start of April, had a positive antibody test in July and am just finishing self isolation (tomorrow) as my wife and kids have all just tested positive for the virus (me negative). While I can't be 100% I'm pretty sure I would have had the virus again if not having immunity. So that's 7 months of immunity so far.
 
Just looked up how Spanish flu ended in 1920, 2 years after killing around 50 million people.😳

"Academics agree that the end of the pandemic occurred in 1920, when society ended up developing a collective immunity to the Spanish flu, although the virus never completely disappeared"

A vaccine will only help collective immunity so hopefully one will be available for at risk groups early 2021 (Oxford vaccine projection).

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.eu...-what-lessons-can-we-learn-from-a-century-ago
 
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