Hopes of Herd Immunity dashed - major study

I appreciate your point. In truth it is not about you personally, it is the risk you pose whilst infectious of passing the virus to another who proves less capable of suppressing the effects. One man’s meat is another mans poison so to speak. Non of us can be certain how our own bodies will react to the virus. Behaviours therefore have to be controlled to minimise risk until the vaccine. We need to remember, it is not just about our personal risk, but our risk we may pose to others.
But this is my point really. I don't think anyone has any intention of endangering the lives of people 'at risk'. If those people don't play it safe either, then isn't it fair game to assume they're comfortable with their own risks too?
 
I agree, but in a civilised society, sacrifices have to be made for the good of us all, otherwise society will break down. Todays young will become old one day and will demand fairness, rightly so. Of the currently elderly, some will argue they have made significant sacrifices in their younger days. Personally, other than being (well trying to be) a good citizen and responsible man, I maybe haven’t, but my father before me certainly did. I am of a lucky generation. I hope once this is all over we can repay the young for their patience and endeavours in playing their role to protect us all (Many are tbf).
Society is already breaking down.
 
Imprisonment for the vulnerable is what we should be looking to avoid surely? There but for the grace of god n’all. Basic awareness of those around us, our personal responsibilities to one another and respect to each other should not be beyond achieving until a vaccine is readily applied. Patience, social distancing, selflessness are not difficult concepts to understand and should be achievable in the short term. Those that deliberately flout, misbehave should be the ones punished not the vulnerable (imho).

Col - there is a lot in that. It is a really positive way of looking at things and commendable. I can’t help getting a little philosophical about the concept though in asking what kind of society do we need to be able to deliver on what you say.
I’m pretty sure, between us, we can come up with some answers.
Sadly, the horse has bolted:
Misinformation, lying ministers and PM, Cummins, MPs drinking after 10.00 pm, the queen, Johnson, Hancock all recently in enclosed spaces with no masks on.

Given that - the only way to get close to what would be good, is law enforcnement. Even that would be seen, by many, as hypocritical given the above examples.

As Atypical said - society is broken and divided. We are reaping what we have sown.
 
I still remember my induction day at 6th form 9/11/2001, boomers have had it easy as pie and dare call others selfish. Tut tut..
My age group in a provincial town didn't particularly have it easy at all. We had rubbish schools available, no work opportunities, deprived alcohol and drug fuelled towns. Trying to educate yourself to have a better life was a way of putting a target on your back. The idea that life was easy for my generation is nonsense, and it was certainly tougher than those that followed when the idea of mobility was increased.
 
But this is my point really. I don't think anyone has any intention of endangering the lives of people 'at risk'. If those people don't play it safe either, then isn't it fair game to assume they're comfortable with their own risks too?

Far from it. If you think at risk groups are comfortable in how they are having or choosing to live their lives, you are mistaken. Some people take risks because they have to, not because they are comfortable in doing so. I am not particularly considered in an at risk group, but feel very uncomfortable amongst the general public, whom, imho, many seem to behave as if covid is no worse than a cold. We shop online, we take it in turns to go to supermarkets alone at quieter times to avoid people getting up close and personal reaching across for a tin of beans or looking at us oddly as we hang back whilst they linger at the Yoghurt isle, picking up and putting down several potentially infected germs on the numerous packs before deciding not to bother and getting a Panna Cotta instead.

Life would be safer and simpler if people pulled together. If ever we went to war or were invaded, i reckon this country would capitulate within hours.
 
I was only playing with ya Marty, it's just the whole 'doing your bit for the war' deserved a mockery, it sounded like a boomer phrase.

I have no idea what age you are all I remember from the old board is you, like me have been involved in the boxing game once upon a time. 👍🏻
 
Far from it. If you think at risk groups are comfortable in how they are having or choosing to live their lives, you are mistaken. Some people take risks because they have to, not because they are comfortable in doing so. I am not particularly considered in an at risk group, but feel very uncomfortable amongst the general public, whom, imho, many seem to behave as if covid is no worse than a cold. We shop online, we take it in turns to go to supermarkets alone at quieter times to avoid people getting up close and personal reaching across for a tin of beans or looking at us oddly as we hang back whilst they linger at the Yoghurt isle, picking up and putting down several potentially infected germs on the numerous packs before deciding not to bother and getting a Panna Cotta instead.

Life would be safer and simpler if people pulled together. If ever we went to war or were invaded, i reckon this country would capitulate within hours.
Fine, and if you do as you've suggested your chances of catching it are low. If you're not 'particularly at risk' then your chances of having a dicey brush with it are probably slimmer than with many other illnesses you could get. Fair play to you, lots of people in the same sort of age group as yourself are eating out in restaurants several times a week and drinking in the boozer. Yes, their choice, but we have to assume its a choice they're comfortable with, surely? Of course you can't never go out though. And of course plenty have to work.

But I think expecting 17 year olds to stop in and behave in exactly the same way is not only unrealistic, but totally unfair on them. To them, it is only a cold. If they're not setting out to give it to you, and they're not coming round your house coughing on you, then I don't see that they owe you anymore than that personally. Just my opinion.
 
Was it? Just because our imperial leadership managed to seduce hundreds of thousands of them to go and die in a trench in the Great War doesn't mean it was ever their 'responsibility'.

I wonder what type of society and freedoms you might or might not be enjoying had they not done so? Of course we will never know mind, but I prefer to be grateful for their sacrifice rather than judge the rights and wrongs as we can’t alter history, but we can shape the future. Society MUST respect the old, the young, provide for each generation as responsibly and fairly as we can. We all have a duty in that respect as if we are lucky we will all hope to experience the differing generations and want fairness as we age, otherwise whats the point.
 
I was only playing with ya Marty, it's just the whole 'doing your bit for the war' deserved a mockery, it sounded like a boomer phrase.

I have no idea what age you are all I remember from the old board is you, like me have been involved in the boxing game once upon a time. 👍🏻

The war was pre boomer, we have had to put with that shyte as well, and we get it from people a lot younger than ourselves.
 
I wonder what type of society and freedoms you might or might not be enjoying had they not done so? Of course we will never know mind, but I prefer to be grateful for their sacrifice rather than judge the rights and wrongs as we can’t alter history, but we can shape the future. Society MUST respect the old, the young, provide for each generation as responsibly and fairly as we can. We all have a duty in that respect as if we are lucky we will all hope to experience the differing generations and want fairness as we age, otherwise whats the point.
I fully agree. But I can't really see why some of 'the old' don't want the youth to keep the economy moving and afloat while this is all going on. Sadly, I just see a lot of envy. "If they can go out boozing why can't I" etc etc. But the youth (or even the government) have not created these 'odds' regarding the virus, biology has.
 
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The war was pre boomer, we have had to put with that shyte as well, and we get it from people a lot younger than ourselves.

I know C_t_C the boomer gen came straight after the war.. most commonly spotted in the wild with gammon coloured skin shouting about immigration whilst asking 500k for a pokey 4 bed detached in ingleby barwick which they paid 100k for in 1992.

P.s. I'm joking please don't hate me. 🤣
 
Fine, and if you do as you've suggested your chances of catching it are low. If you're not 'particularly at risk' then your chances of having a dicey brush with it are probably slimmer than with many other illnesses you could get. Fair play to you, lots of people in the same sort of age group as yourself are eating out in restaurants several times a week and drinking in the boozer. Yes, their choice, but we have to assume its a choice they're comfortable with, surely? Of course you can't never go out though. And of course plenty have to work.

But I think expecting 17 year olds to stop in and behave in exactly the same way is not only unrealistic, but totally unfair on them. To them, it is only a cold. If they're not setting out to give it to you, and they're not coming round your house coughing on you, then I don't see that they owe you anymore than that personally. Just my opinion.

I expect everyone to sacrifice something, yes. The societies that have handled this better have been the ones that have been playing by the rules, isolating where told to do so. Our government has mishandled the track and trace issue spectacularly, making it much harder to resolve, I accept that. It means its harder on us all. Would you expect a 21 yr old living with his parents, one who has C.O.P.D to be mega careful for a few more month or be out on the razz risking bringing home the virus? How do any of us know whether we may have an underlying condition. I dare say a good few don’t given the lack of screening at present. I really do not think asking everyone to be careful, social distance and don’t be a selfish d1ck for upwards of another 3-9 months is such an unfair huge ask. It is then up to government to make sure the younger groups can make up for lost time.

I would start by lower retirement age to create jobs for the young enabling more to choose to retire earlier where they can. Scrap HS2 and provide more low cost affordable housing for the young. Increase taxation and fund construction to improve social connectivity and social mobility that would encourage industry to the North. Lots of things can be done to level up for the younger generations across the UK. The post covid years should focus on creating jobs and wealth for the young, and protecting the older poor. Society needs to bring about a more even distribution of wealth. Those in power though are the real problem, whatever colour the rosette is.
 
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