Hopes of Herd Immunity dashed - major study

I suppose the response to that, trying to remain positive, is the good news that the second infection wouldn’t be as strong according to medical scientists as the strain weakens.
 
An entire article that mis-represents what 'heard immunity' means, how pandemics work, t cells and links it to the great Barrington declaration in an effort to smear it.

Question... Given we don't have 'retain' anti-bodies for any particular virus strain, how have previous pandemics ended? Do they ever end?
 
An annual vaccine is the only way forward, maybe in conjunction with a flu vaccine, maybe 6 monthly for more vulnerable groups, coupled with minor behavioural changes. I really can’t see any other way out to normality. Strengthen laws for stupidity and poor behaviours In the meantime.

The country desperately needs a boost and the Oxford vaccine is the nearest oasis in a desert of misery.
 
coluka said:
An annual vaccine is the only way forward, maybe in conjunction with a flu vaccine, maybe 6 monthly for more vulnerable groups, coupled with minor behavioural changes. I really can’t see any other way out to normality. Strengthen laws for stupidity and poor behaviours In the meantime.

The country desperately needs a boost and the Oxford vaccine is the nearest oasis in a desert of misery.
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Not sure I agree about strengthening laws Col. I’d prefer there to be a more comprehensive sharing of information rather than threats to people’s freedoms.

If you give people the right info, the ones who are at risk will stop in, surely.
 
atypical_boro said:
Not sure I agree about strengthening laws Col. I’d prefer there to be a more comprehensive sharing of information rather than threats to people’s freedoms.

If you give people the right info, the ones who are at risk will stop in, surely.
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Imprisonment for the vulnerable is what we should be looking to avoid surely? There but for the grace of god n’all. Basic awareness of those around us, our personal responsibilities to one another and respect to each other should not be beyond achieving until a vaccine is readily applied. Patience, social distancing, selflessness are not difficult concepts to understand and should be achievable in the short term. Those that deliberately flout, misbehave should be the ones punished not the vulnerable (imho).
 
Alvez_48 said:
An entire article that mis-represents what 'heard immunity' means, how pandemics work, t cells and links it to the great Barrington declaration in an effort to smear it.

Question... Given we don't have 'retain' anti-bodies for any particular virus strain, how have previous pandemics ended? Do they ever end?
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MERS ended in 2004. What it had going for it was that it was only contagious when a person had symptoms. The S309 antibody from SARS seems to provide SARS2 immunity and, as the antibody is still present in recovered SARS patients 17 years later, may become the basis of a long lasting vaccine.
 
coluka said:
Imprisonment for the vulnerable is what we should be looking to avoid surely? There but for the grace of god n’all. Basic awareness of those around us, our personal responsibilities to one another and respect to each other should not be beyond achieving until a vaccine is readily applied. Patience, social distancing, selflessness are not difficult concepts to understand and should be achievable in the short term. Those that deliberately flout, misbehave should be the ones punished not the vulnerable (imho).
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Giving them stats is not imprisonment. I’ve not suggested they should be punished by law if they choose to ignore them.

Locking students up in their flats, quite literally, is.
 
Even if herd immunity is not an option, it does not follow that 'every man for himself' is the only way. There is still a case for collective action, lockdowns etc. The trouble is that, like politics, it is the 'art of the possible' we're talking about. Unlike China, the UK government do not have enough grip to make more than 75-80% comply. you see it on trains, buses, in shops etc. They are going to have to admit it before the economy disappears altogether.
 
atypical_boro said:
Giving them stats is not imprisonment. I’ve not suggested they should be punished by law if they choose to ignore them.


Locking students up in their flats, quite literally, is.
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They aren’t locked up like a prison though are they, no more than anyone else expected to self isolate in their bubbles. I appreciate they are being asked to isolate in their bubbles where any in that bubble has the virus. Student in halls in bubbles not as yet affected are still free to move around but asked to observe strict guidelines. If that is not the case in all areas then I agree it is harsh. The vulnerable are already generally being uber careful and self regulate or limit their freedom. I am talking about those that only worry about themselves and show a lack of empathy and thought for others. The young or old, have no greater right than the next man or woman. Going out and about and enjoying a ‘right of passage’ is inappropriate right now. I do agree that the young are suffering and a lot is asked of them, I hope that when they become older new generations afford them the same care and respect they will no doubt expect at that time.
 
I was also listening to R5 this morning and a specialist said the antibodies only seem to be lasting 6 months in most cases, so it can be caught more once and also passed on.
 
ticker_tape said:
I was also listening to R5 this morning and a specialist said the antibodies only seem to be lasting 6 months in most cases, so it can be caught more once and also passed on.
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I’m not entirely sure why it’s being spun as a negative that if you catch it, you are immune for 6 months. Surely that’s a good thing? (If you get it and survive of course with no other repurcussions).
 
coluka said:
They aren’t locked up like a prison though are they, no more than anyone else expected to self isolate in their bubbles. I appreciate they are being asked to isolate in their bubbles where any in that bubble has the virus. Student in halls in bubbles not as yet affected are still free to move around but asked to observe strict guidelines. If that is not the case in all areas then I agree it is harsh. The vulnerable are already generally being uber careful and self regulate or limit their freedom. I am talking about those that only worry about themselves and show a lack of empathy and thought for others. The young or old, have no greater right than the next man or woman. Going out and about and enjoying a ‘right of passage’ is inappropriate right now. I do agree that the young are suffering and a lot is asked of them, I hope that when they become older new generations afford them the same care and respect they will no doubt expect at that time.
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I believe everyone should have equal rights and be given meaningful factual information. Sadly, this virus is very, very ageist, and that’s not the fault of the young or anyone else, its just a fact.
 
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atypical_boro said:
I’m not entirely sure why it’s being spun as a negative that if you catch it, you are immune for 6 months. Surely that’s a good thing? (If you get it and survive of course with no other repurcussions).
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I appreciate your point. In truth it is not about you personally, it is the risk you pose whilst infectious of passing the virus to another who proves less capable of suppressing the effects. One man’s meat is another mans poison so to speak. Non of us can be certain how our own bodies will react to the virus. Behaviours therefore have to be controlled to minimise risk until the vaccine. We need to remember, it is not just about our personal risk, but our risk we may pose to others.
 
Cardiffdaffs said:
I suppose the response to that, trying to remain positive, is the good news that the second infection wouldn’t be as strong according to medical scientists as the strain weakens.
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It’s early days yet and continued resistance is still being tested. To draw any conclusions from that announcement is in their very own words premature.
 
atypical_boro said:
I believe everyone should have equal rights and be given meaningful factual information. Sadly, this virus is very, very ageist, and that’s not the fault of the young.
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I agree, but in a civilised society, sacrifices have to be made for the good of us all, otherwise society will break down. Todays young will become old one day and will demand fairness, rightly so. Of the currently elderly, some will argue they have made significant sacrifices in their younger days. Personally, other than being (well trying to be) a good citizen and responsible man, I maybe haven’t, but my father before me certainly did. I am of a lucky generation. I hope once this is all over we can repay the young for their patience and endeavours in playing their role to protect us all (Many are tbf).

Edit: It is not just about the information either (which is lacking In substance at times to back up the special measures) it is about behaviours and responses. A proportion of society only want to see the world through their own eyes and not contemplate walking in anyone elses shoes no matter how briefly.
 
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BoroMart said:
no but its the responsibility of the young to do their bit, like it was the responsibility of the young to protect the country in wars
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Marty you're such a boomer. 😉
It's the boomers who are more afraid and selfish than anyone right guys?

Easiest lives in history of humanity, bought their houses for a bag of chips, saw actual inflation busting pay rises year on year and not a single 'war' they had to contribute a finger towards.

I still remember my induction day at 6th form 9/11/2001, boomers have had it easy as pie and dare call others selfish. Tut tut..

See the oldest don't want this lockdown, the youngest don't want their entire future destroyed, it's those boomers like you marty. 🤣
 
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