Have Your Say on VAR - Official Fan Survey for End of Season Review

Frozen Horse

Well-known member
Offside - you're either offside or you're not. If you're not prepared to accept a linesperson missing one now and then and want VAR to be implemented then you have no grounds for complaint on offsides, IMO. They used to say this on Match of the Day all the time. "He's off," "He's a yard off," "Ooohhh, hmm... just about off, just about Gary," "It's tight but if you're off then you're off." Marginal calls are still marginal, with or without VAR. If you're not prepared to accept a human can or will call it a particular way then the only solution is to get the rulers out and make certain.

I am prepared to accept it.

Given some of the offside decisions that have been given by VAR, I cannot blame officials.

If we conceded one of these marginally offside goals, I'd blame our defenders, not the officials: no way do the defenders know it's offside, and the margins are too small for them to actually make a difference if the player is onside.
 
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Laughing

Well-known member
I am prepared to accept it.

Given some of the offside decisions that have been given by VAR, I cannot blame officials.

If we conceded one of these marginally offside goals, I'd blame our defenders, not the officials: no way do the defenders know it's offside, and the margins are too small for them to actually make a difference if the player is onside.
Thats a very good point if you are an inch offside, did it really effect the final outcome? Reward the attacker for "almost" the perfect run. Didn't referee's once have to give the attacker the benefit of the doubt. I don't know but I seem to remember that from the heady old days of competent referee's.

Another aside, referee's will get worse and worse as they rely on VAR. Also, linesmen don't flag offside half the time now and wait for VAR, meaning the players have to play on. It's a bit mad.
 

Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret

Well-known member
I think a lot of players and managers wanted it as well. It's a job for them, they don't want to get sacked because of a bad refereeing decision. Whereas we are in it for the entertainment.
 
A lot of the 'enjoyment' of football comes from poor refereeing and perceived injustices to either your team or the opposition. Maradona's Hand of God would never have existed with VAR and that has shaped Eng-Arg football relations for 30-odd years. Part of the game is walking out of the ground adamant that their last minute equaliser was miles offside or the scorer should never have been on the pitch as the ref missed an earlier elbow. VAR is too clinical. As said, the professionals will disagree but wrong decisions actually make football more entertaining.
 

viv_andersons_nana

Well-known member
Quick question to those who advocate VAR in football.

In 1992, Boro played at home to Bristol Rovers and won 2-1. The second goal we scored was a deliberate handball by Sir Paul Wilkinson, who essentially leant forwards and punched it into the net from a cross into the box. It looked like a header to the untrained eye but Bristol Rovers were fuming. Boro went up in 2nd place that season, by two points. Take those two points away and Lennie's Lions finish third, dropping into the play-offs. We might not have gone up. Those iconic scenes at Molineux on the last day of the season probably wouldn't have happened.

Or... VAR is used to give Bolton a penalty in the League Cup final in 2004 after the ball hits Ugo's wrist in the box. Or ruled out Bolo's penalty because he slipped and touched it twice, like Tav against Norwich. We might not have won the cup and then spent two years travelling around Europe.

How do people feel about either or both of those things happening? Presumably VAR advocates wouldn't have minded?

You can say we'd have been in the play-offs this season if it wasn't for referees or if we had VAR and that might be true(to a point), but on the other hand we'd have probably lost out on things too. It's football. I appreciate those questions above are completely hypothetical but I do think that sometimes we only see things that benefit our own team and don't really take into account the fact that we'd be impacted by it too in terms of losing out on goals, and/or big or important moments. We don't always feel it when we get the rub of the green.

We just need to forget about the telly and crack on with the game IMO.
 

changingman

Well-known member
VAR has largely achieved its objective - a % proportion of correct decisions, as this is something I feel strongly about I'm pleased on this point.

BUT - for me, the planning/scoping of its introduction is/was appalling. It's almost as if no other factors have been considered in the implementation and has been developed in a very "inside-out" manner. By that I mean those developing the solution haven't considered the views and impact on other stakeholders - fans, players, managers, clubs etc. That said, it does seem that some of those views are higher on the agenda currently - lack of transparency in decision making, decisions taking too long etc.

It feels like the last couple of years have been a proof of concept of the tech (which has been successful) but it's only now that consideration is being to given to multiple other factors. Classic example of how not to launch a product in my opinion but might be (finally) heading in the right direction.
 

junos_boots

Well-known member
Quick question to those who advocate VAR in football.

In 1992, Boro played at home to Bristol Rovers and won 2-1. The second goal we scored was a deliberate handball by Sir Paul Wilkinson, who essentially leant forwards and punched it into the net from a cross into the box. It looked like a header to the untrained eye but Bristol Rovers were fuming. Boro went up in 2nd place that season, by two points. Take those two points away and Lennie's Lions finish third, dropping into the play-offs. We might not have gone up. Those iconic scenes at Molineux on the last day of the season probably wouldn't have happened.

Or... VAR is used to give Bolton a penalty in the League Cup final in 2004 after the ball hits Ugo's wrist in the box. Or ruled out Bolo's penalty because he slipped and touched it twice, like Tav against Norwich. We might not have won the cup and then spent two years travelling around Europe.

How do people feel about either or both of those things happening? Presumably VAR advocates wouldn't have minded?

You can say we'd have been in the play-offs this season if it wasn't for referees or if we had VAR and that might be true(to a point), but on the other hand we'd have probably lost out on things too. It's football. I appreciate those questions above are completely hypothetical but I do think that sometimes we only see things that benefit our own team and don't really take into account the fact that we'd be impacted by it too in terms of losing out on goals, and/or big or important moments. We don't always feel it when we get the rub of the green.

We just need to forget about the telly and crack on with the game IMO.
Dont forget Jimmy's handball v Geordies - would we have qualified for Europe? Missed out on the Massimo comeback goals - who knows?

Until they can define the exact point that the ball is kicked by the player passing the ball, you cannot freeze the play with any real accuracy to give the close offside decisions.
 

Concrete Dreams

Active member
Make VAR part of the experience and follow the examples of tennis and cricket and it might be more successful.

Each team have 3 appeals, only the captain or manager can call for a VAR review.
The match day officials go to a line side monitor and review the footage and make a decision. Nobody in an office in Swindon, or anywhere, draws digital lines from armpits or toe nails or interferes in any way.
If stadiums have screens, the same replays are displayed as the ref sees them. His decision is announced over the PA system.

If a review is unsuccessful, you lose one; if it is correct, you keep your 'life'.
 

Humpty

Active member
Dont forget Jimmy's handball v Geordies - would we have qualified for Europe? Missed out on the Massimo comeback goals - who knows?

Until they can define the exact point that the ball is kicked by the player passing the ball, you cannot freeze the play with any real accuracy to give the close offside decisions.
I agree with this. There is far too much room for error on the offside calls in the way they're assessed them for it to be accurate. The fact the pictures a re often blurred when they start drawing lines on the screen is testament to that.
 

Rauko

Active member
The two issues I have with VAR is that ..

1) it takes away subjective decision making from the referee .. if a Ref decides "no penalty" and then he's got some bloke shouting in his ear "it's a penna!" .. then the ref loses his capacity to make decisions .. even if he goes to look at the incident on a monitor, he's now under indirect pressure to give the penalty because he knows some bloke 100 mile away thinks it was a pen and he knows those in the TV studios will be asking questions .. he's now indirectly pressured into changing his mind and agreeing with his peers. LET THE REF DECIDE FOR HIMSELF. If he CHOOSES to look at the incident on the monitor without any prompting because he's not sure, then that's fine .. but somebody barking in his ear that he might have got a decision wrong is not good. Refs will lose confidence in themselves and will then start to NOT make decisions and let VAR sort it out.

2) Determining whether or not somebody is offside due to his armpit hair is not good. The technology is not good enough to determine the exact moment contact was made with a ball and correlating that with the exact position of an attacking player. We don't need clear daylight rules implemented (the same issue will exist - we'll just end up moving the lines) ... all we need to do is give VAR 10 seconds to determine whether it's offside or not .. if they can't determine it within 10 seconds then .. no offside .. not clear enough and taking into account margins of error the attacker might be offside or might not be .. so go with the decision on the field.
 

Frozen Horse

Well-known member
Which goals from our past would or wouldn't have stood under VAR isn't going to sway me either way.
If we have it in future, goals we score will be disallowed. If we don't have it, some goals against us will stand. It's a neutral point.

VAR will not eliminate controversy. Football programmes will focus on the next most controversial decisions and make mountains out of whether it was a throw in or not.

It was meant to stop with goal line technology.
 
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