Have the police lost our trust?

[NoloBoro]

I’ve been a copper for a long time. I’m at the point when I can’t remember anything else.
Despite the comments from many on here I am immensely proud of what I do.
I don’t seek your approval, what I do seek is an understanding that we are the same, we want what’s best for ourselves and the people we care about.
In my work, which is more than a job for me I try to help people, I also try to enhance the reputation of the police with every interaction I have with people I have cause to speak with.
I care deeply about society, can see the erosion of communities, the fact that there are people in society without the main ingredient that you cannot live without and that is hope. I am aware of this fact when I have to consider why sometimes people do things that are wrong.
I’ve seen so much violence that I’ve become desensitised to it, I’m not a violent person or a bully but have had to confront things that many would run from.
If you met me you wouldn’t think I was a bobby, you’d probably think I was an average blue collar bloke, a builder, labourer, plasterer etc.
For the last few years, I’ve been a detective. I spend 80 percent of my time speaking to people who have been sexually abused. I interview kids who have had horrendous things done to them, its hard on you believe me, it messes with your head, it saps your soul. The job has taken things from me that I can never get back.
People treat me differently when they find out what I do for a living. I was once at a BBQ, having a laugh with some lads, getting on well. I went to the toilet, the window was open. I heard one lad say to another “**** me, you didn’t tell me he was a pig, I thought he was sound, sneaky ****” my wife and kids were there ffs. Irony was this lad was 5’2” and probably about 18 clem. Calling me a pig?? I wanted to go home but didn’t.
If I caught a colleague breaking the law, I’d nick him in a heartbeat.
I do not tell lies ever!
This is the only social media I use, I’ve read comments on here from people whose posts usually make me laugh, I have tried to picture what they look like. The comments they have made upset me in all honesty.
I can’t put the news on without seeing people slating the police. Admittedly there’s been some shocking things done by people who call themselves police, nobody is angrier than me about it!
I am from a mixed race family, I feel it’s worth mentioning as many are of the belief that black people don’t trust the police, for obvious reasons this really bothers me.
I am considering giving FMTTM a miss, it’s a shame as I like it on here.
Even people I love tell me I’ve changed, they ask me what’s happened to ‘the old me’
I’ve got a colleague or two who frequent this site and I’ll probably get the **** taken out of me for this post.
UTB.

 

[redblood]

I’ve been a copper for a long time. I’m at the point when I can’t remember anything else.
Despite the comments from many on here I am immensely proud of what I do.
I don’t seek your approval, what I do seek is an understanding that we are the same, we want what’s best for ourselves and the people we care about.
In my work, which is more than a job for me I try to help people, I also try to enhance the reputation of the police with every interaction I have with people I have cause to speak with.
I care deeply about society, can see the erosion of communities, the fact that there are people in society without the main ingredient that you cannot live without and that is hope. I am aware of this fact when I have to consider why sometimes people do things that are wrong.
I’ve seen so much violence that I’ve become desensitised to it, I’m not a violent person or a bully but have had to confront things that many would run from.
If you met me you wouldn’t think I was a bobby, you’d probably think I was an average blue collar bloke, a builder, labourer, plasterer etc.
For the last few years, I’ve been a detective. I spend 80 percent of my time speaking to people who have been sexually abused. I interview kids who have had horrendous things done to them, its hard on you believe me, it messes with your head, it saps your soul. The job has taken things from me that I can never get back.
People treat me differently when they find out what I do for a living. I was once at a BBQ, having a laugh with some lads, getting on well. I went to the toilet, the window was open. I heard one lad say to another “**** me, you didn’t tell me he was a pig, I thought he was sound, sneaky ****” my wife and kids were there ffs. Irony was this lad was 5’2” and probably about 18 clem. Calling me a pig?? I wanted to go home but didn’t.
If I caught a colleague breaking the law, I’d nick him in a heartbeat.
I do not tell lies ever!
This is the only social media I use, I’ve read comments on here from people whose posts usually make me laugh, I have tried to picture what they look like. The comments they have made upset me in all honesty.
I can’t put the news on without seeing people slating the police. Admittedly there’s been some shocking things done by people who call themselves police, nobody is angrier than me about it!
I am from a mixed race family, I feel it’s worth mentioning as many are of the belief that black people don’t trust the police, for obvious reasons this really bothers me.
I am considering giving FMTTM a miss, it’s a shame as I like it on here.
Even people I love tell me I’ve changed, they ask me what’s happened to ‘the old me’
I’ve got a colleague or two who frequent this site and I’ll probably get the **** taken out of me for this post.
UTB.

I have nothing but total respect for you and officers of your ilk and can only imagine what you have to endure on a daily basis.

I'm absolutely certain that the all the posters that have had some say on this topic would agree with my sentiment, as we, without doubt, need
the police and in particular good officers like yourself. Sadly, there are officers, as you are probably aware, that are the total opposite that prefer or
choose to take the other path by using bullying, intimidating or hands on tactics to identify someone, even when that person has not committed a crime.
They seem to have forgotten the oath that they took to serve and protect and that one is innocent until proven guilty.

It's hardly surprising that the gap between the police and the people will only grow bigger whilst those officers are still patrolling the streets unchallenged.
More officers need to speak up and come forward but that is highly unlikely whilst the police themselves are the one that investigate themselves.

Keep up the good work Nolo, it is the likes of you that we so desperately need, not only on the streets but more importantly in training roles.

 

[xxlshirts_fit_all]

I think what’s often forgot on in incidents like this is we’ve only seen a part of the whole interaction….

I can’t believe for one minute that it was that the coppers were called because someone thought she hadn’t paid..

I would expect she didn’t handle being asked for a ticket very well and it escalated rapidly and she needed to be cuffed for people’s safety..

these situations are made worse by the public, both the accused and passers by…

that said, some police don’t help the situation, but they’re in a difficult position and often outnumbered by ’concerned’ citizens as soon as they appear…

 

[Andy_W]

So it’s her fault for not allowing herself to be treat like dirt and not bowing down to to somebody who may or may not have been showing her any sort of respect.
You keep saying should could have reported it later, who is she going to report it to ,if she thinks she’s been harshly treated. Would they act on her complaints? probably not ,would the inspector be sanctioned almost certainly not .
She had a ticket and chose not to show it for reasons only she knows but obviously she was upset enough not to want to interact with the inspector,who then escalated it by contacting the police who ,will almost certainly have made up there minds on route ,that she was a fare dodger based solely on the information given to them by the inspector. Did the police approach her in a friendly manner or go straight in heavy handed and intimidating? She may have had previous interactions with the police which tainted her views of them so did not want to co-operate with them .

No, that's not what I said, not at all. Who treat her like dirt and when? Who didn't try and show her respect before she walked off, got abusive and started kicking off?

The statement said she refused to prove she had paid (to the ticket inspector and cops), then walked off, then was abusive, then resisted. There's zero evidence that she wasn't treat in response to how she acted. You're just making an assumption that she was good and all the employees decided to be bad (where their jobs rely on them being good, and everything is recorded on bodycam, CCTV or by the public). I'm making an assumption that the statement is factual, and that we have zero information about how she or the conductor acted or the circumstances.

She could report it to TFL, the conductor has a TFL logo on his jacket and a badge number, same for the cops, and the PSCO.

Why do you assume that they wouldn't act on a complaint, for TFL or the cops etc, they're both public services which probably have regulations where they have to investigate complaints.

You don't know she was upset, she might have just thought the TFL employee wasn't worthy of her time, or thought she didn't have to show her proof? We don't know either way, we just know she didn't show her proof, which is a condition of travel.

You don't know they made their minds up on route, how could you know that? I would assume that as soon as they got there they would have just asked her to stop and show her proof of purchase, as that's what the statement said effectively. If they didn't do that, then I'll change my opinion, but for now it's based on the poloce statements.

The statement said she walked off from the cops and then was abusive, so didn't seem to want to show her ticket, we have no idea why she would do that to the police, as well as not showing to the TFL employee.

You don't know she's had bad previous interactions, the vast majority of innocent peoples actions with the police are very good I expect.

 

[Andy_W]

I'll try this once more. It doesn't matter what happened before the video start because the woman is under no obligation to behave in any way at all. That is a fact. The police however, do have an obligation. That obligation is to treat people according to their training. They did not and I know they did not because its all over the video.The woman has no obligation and no training in de-escalation techniques, the police do. Your attitude seems to be she got what she deserved. What price justice eh? Any price according to you, so long as you are not paying the price though, obviously.

She, according to the police officers information, may have commited the heinous crime of fare evasion. They decided to assault her rather than issue a penalty fare, jeeze they could have gone with a verbal warning.


It is neither wonder police think they can act in this way when uninformed fools like you defend that behaviour. It was entirely uneccesary. They had options they choose to either ignore completely or abandon. That is not how they are trained.

No reasonable attempt at commiunication and none whatsoever to listen to what the woman was saying. They are a disgrace to the uniform and the reason why conflicts escalate and people get hurt.

You can choose to believe what you want, of course. It doesn't change the fact that you are wrong. According to the metropolitans guidelines on de-escalation training issued in 2020. Updated because the previous guidelines and training weren't working. It seems they still are not cutting through. I am not telling you the police officers were wrong, their training manual is.

De-escalation tactics are used by officers when safe and feasible to do so. The woman was no danger to the officers nor to the public. The offence was incredibly minor. A classic case of where de-escalation tactics would have avoided what we see in the video. No attempt was made by the police officers to ascetain why she refused to show the ticket she had. They, and you, it seems, jump straight to the conclusion that she was being awkward or obstructive. And let me say this again, it's pertinent to your comments, and the thread subject generally. She was a black woman with a young child being manhandled by white police officers. You don't have to be a genius to draw conclusions from that as to why the situation may have caused her some stress. Of course we don't know, because the officerrs didn't bother to try and find out. Poor behaviour from the worst trained outfit in the worst trained police force in the country.

One final thought on this. I cannot begin to tell you the scorn I have for anyone who thinks what we saw on that video for a summary only offence is in any way acceptable for a UK police force. Behaviour like that, if accepted leads to further pushing of the boundries of what is an acceptable weilding of police powers.

What happened before might not matter to you, but it will matter to TFL and then to the police if they're being abused and she's being anti-social. This will all be recorded of course.

I don't care how she wants to act, she can do what she likes, but there are repercussions for every action.

The police have an obligation to uphold the law, and act on suspected reports of crime, however minor. If the public want to escalate and make something minor worse, then that's up to them, but the police will escalate in response if the public have zero intention in being reasonable.

The womans "training" is irrelevant when she's not meeting the rules of travel, not obeying a police request after being informed of not meeting the rules of travel, and being abusive. Having "no training" is not an excuse to just go and do what the hell you like. The conditions of travel, laws and rights are avialible for all to see if they want to read them. As for de-escalation, a reasonable person would just show proof to TFL, or just stop when the police asked and show proof to them.

I won't get into the pathetic name calling, but you're the one making assumptions which go directly against a police statement.

You don't know there wasn't reasonable attmept at communication before the video you saw, the police statement indicates she had zero intention of stopping or communicating, other than being abusive of course.

You don't know I'm wrong, you didn't see all the video, you've just got on a high horse about a clipped video and assumed all of the cops there are bad.

De-escalation is a two way process.

Her colour and child are irrelevant, in as such they are not a free pass to not obey conditions of travel, not obey the law or be abusive to police. If it was a black or white youth with a hoodie on in that clipped video, would you have the same response?

I have scorn for anyone who thinks all TFL employees and police are bad, and who make assumptions from clipped videos without seeing the lead up to it, and also thinks police statements are "codswallop".

 

[Andy_W]

For anyone that's interested, she was asked for her ticket as she was getting off the bus, she was spoken to by a TfL inspector, then by a PCSO and finally by a police officer. She continued to try to walk away and did not provide her ticket for inspection to any of them.

Edited the below again for additional accuracy, after going and reading back, and then being corrected:

Someone above mentioned about her potentially being badly treated by the TFL employee, but there are two TFL employees in the video, can't imagine they were both in the wrong, but maybe. If they were both there at the same time it was unlikely to be any sort of racial incident, seeing as one TFL guy was black and one guy was white.
Apparently, one of them (or both) asked her for her ticket as she was getting off, probably stood near the door etc, so he was probably not specifically targeting anyone in any way either. I would assume she was just likely the next person he came to (whichever one it was).

 

[Laughing]

What happened before might not matter to you, but it will matter to TFL and then to the police if they're being abused and she's being anti-social. This will all be recorded of course.

I don't care how she wants to act, she can do what she likes, but there are repercussions for every action.

The police have an obligation to uphold the law, and act on suspected reports of crime, however minor. If the public want to escalate and make something minor worse, then that's up to them, but the police will escalate in response if the public have zero intention in being reasonable.

The womans "training" is irrelevant when she's not meeting the rules of travel, not obeying a police request after being informed of not meeting the rules of travel, and being abusive. Having "no training" is not an excuse to just go and do what the hell you like. The conditions of travel, laws and rights are avialible for all to see if they want to read them. As for de-escalation, a reasonable person would just show proof to TFL, or just stop when the police asked and show proof to them.

I won't get into the pathetic name calling, but you're the one making assumptions which go directly against a police statement.

You don't know there wasn't reasonable attmept at communication before the video you saw, the police statement indicates she had zero intention of stopping or communicating, other than being abusive of course.

You don't know I'm wrong, you didn't see all the video, you've just got on a high horse about a clipped video and assumed all of the cops there are bad.

De-escalation is a two way process.

Her colour and child are irrelevant, in as such they are not a free pass to not obey conditions of travel, not obey the law or be abusive to police. If it was a black or white youth with a hoodie on in that clipped video, would you have the same response?

I have scorn for anyone who thinks all TFL employees and police are bad, and who make assumptions from clipped videos without seeing the lead up to it, and also thinks police statements are "codswallop".

I gave you my last thoughts on this. You didn't bother addressing any of my points because you can't. According to police training materials the officers were wrong. That really is the end of the conversation.

As for thinking the police are bad. I never said that. I never mentioned any TFL employees either. Carry on making up stuff. I suspect your problem is you don't care what anyone else says. You made your mind up and thats that for you. Always has been and I suspect always will be.

On other subjects it's not very important. It doesn't matter that you think Messi or Ronaldo are better than Pele, it doesn't matter that you think disposable vapes are aimed at children. It does matter that you support police officers ignoring their training and using alternative, non-invasive, tactics when nobody was at risk.

the use of perjoratives like kicking off, entirely made up, of course, does nothing to support your arguments.

I really can't be bothered arguing with someone who has never changed their mind, even when presented with clear evidence. It's pointless.

 

[Laughing]

For anyone that's interested, she was asked for her ticket as she was getting off the bus, she was spoken to by a TfL inspector, then by a PCSO and finally by a police officer. She continued to try to walk away and did not provide her ticket for inspection to any of them.

It looks like the TFL employee is in the video too (guy with the high viz on), and he's also black which pretty much quashes one of the previous arguments by someone that she had been specifically racially targeted by the TFL employee who was just doing his job.

Please stop telling lies for christ sake. I said no attempt was made to understand why she may be anxious when approached by white police officers.

Thats a couple of clear disengenuous comments made now. Carry on without me.

 

[BillyBoyStu]

There’s 2 coppers on the tele who sit in their car all day and eat Haribos. They don’t even know they’re police half the time.

 

[dribble]

She doesn’t have to

There’s 2 coppers on the tele who sit in their car all day and eat Haribos. They don’t even know they’re police half the time.

I’m sure one of them is an ex arms dealer

 

[Andy_W]

Please stop telling lies for christ sake. I said no attempt was made to understand why she may be anxious when approached by white police officers.

Thats a couple of clear disengenuous comments made now. Carry on without me.

I wasn't replying to you, I was replying to someone else a couple of pages before, but it was also for the benefit of everyone else.

 

[Andy_W]

I gave you my last thoughts on this. You didn't bother addressing any of my points because you can't. According to police training materials the officers were wrong. That really is the end of the conversation.

As for thinking the police are bad. I never said that. I never mentioned any TFL employees either. Carry on making up stuff. I suspect your problem is you don't care what anyone else says. You made your mind up and thats that for you. Always has been and I suspect always will be.

On other subjects it's not very important. It doesn't matter that you think Messi or Ronaldo are better than Pele, it doesn't matter that you think disposable vapes are aimed at children. It does matter that you support police officers ignoring their training and using alternative, non-invasive, tactics when nobody was at risk.

the use of perjoratives like kicking off, entirely made up, of course, does nothing to support your arguments.

I really can't be bothered arguing with someone who has never changed their mind, even when presented with clear evidence. It's pointless.

I addressed that you haven't seen the full event, in fact you don't even have any interest in it, as it apparently doesn't even matter, which is ludicrous. You are seemingly claiming that the police make up their reports, it seems you have some sort of agenda.

Everything you're saying is after/ on the above basis, so is largely irrelevant.

I care what the police say, what their statement is, and what they said after they reviewed the bodycam footage you've not seen, maybe they're all liars, but I doubt it very much.

Not important, yet you still brought them up as another one of your straw man arguments? Other comments are subjective, opinion based and irrelevant, hence why they're on other threads, that's how forums work. The comments here are based on police statements after body cam footage was reviewed, I'm trusting this is factual.

You've seemingly got some sort of agenda against the police as a whole, which is my opinion of how it reads, which is a right I'm entitled to. You're welcome to your opinion, or whatever it is, but it's one I don't share, which is my right.

I can use whatever pejoratives I like, it's a forum, it's not illegal and you're not the police, or forum police. In this case by kicking off, I mean being abusive and anti-social, not complying with TFL rules of travel and walking away from the police. Whether you believe she was right to do that, or had a right to do that without zero consequence is up to you, but she was still kicking off.

You don't have any evidence to counter the assumed factual police statement based on bodycam footage (which is my point), that's part of the evidence, as is the cut video.

Anyway, had enough, till next time

 

[dribble]

For anyone that's interested, she was asked for her ticket as she was getting off the bus, she was spoken to by a TfL inspector, then by a PCSO and finally by a police officer. She continued to try to walk away and did not provide her ticket for inspection to any of them.

Edited the below for additonal accuracy, after going and reading back:

Someone above mentioned about her potentially being badly treated by the TFL employee (in whatever way), but he is in the video too (guy with the high viz on), and he's also black which I woudl assume means it wasn't started as a race-related offence by TFL etc. So if he disrespected her in any way (not saying he did), then it likely wasn't that way. Apparently, asked her for her ticket as she was getting off, probably stood near the door etc, so he was probably not specifically targeting her in that way either. I would assume she was just likely the next person he came to.

Actually there’s two TFL employees in the video which you conveniently forgot to mention, one I’d black ,one is white.

 

[festa5]

I understand you thoughts and takes on it being a difficult job and that mistakes will be made.
The worrying thing for me though is that there are usually more than one officer on scene at the time and it is they that
have the opportunity to de-escalate the situation but as often is the case, they don't. Why would that be.?

Are they afraid of the consequences of embarrassing/ belittling maybe a higher ranked officer, could it also mean that their days of being
a police officer is as good as over if they did ?
To weed out the "bad apples" one needs to have "good apples" to replace them. I wonder how many of the "good apples" are willing to
take such a risk. Are the "good apples "being trained by the "bad apples" which in essence only adds to the "bad apple "basket if they do.?

In your experience, what percentage of officers have reported other officers for corrupt/ inappropriate behaviour and is it worth the hassle?
Have or did you ever report another officer and was it treated and dealt with appropriately?

I was only doing the job for 2 and a half years and didn't see anything that crossed the line, so hard to answer that question. I saw different styles and the odd person acting like a bit of a d*ck and doing things differently to how I would, but nothing like what you see reported in the news and nothing against the law or even guidelines.

Things like being overly harsh issuing tickets for minor traffic offences when a warning would suffice etc.

It was also 20 years ago and of course times have changed.

However I do think it would be difficult to challenge inappropriate behaviour or report it. You'd probably raise it with a superior initially, but if they dont have your back, probably takes a lot of courage to take it further. Depending on what it is of course.

As you imply even harder for younger more inexperienced officers. I was 22 at the time with very little real life experience. I can't say for certain what I'd have done if I'd witnessed something that did cross the line. Now I'm in my early 40s I'd be much more confident standing my ground and that I would take action.

Which is another issue, most coppers join when they're young and are more easily influenced/controlled by more experienced officers.

 

[Andy_W]

Actually there’s two TFL employees in the video which you conveniently forgot to mention, one I’d black ,one is white.

The guy in the white shirt? Sorry, genuine mistake. Didn't see a visible logo on the shirt or vest, like the other guy, but probably is TFL with the Viz vest on (probably obscuring the logo), a different uniform to the other bloke with the two clear TFL logo's though. Think I might have thought he was one of the cops initially, as they all had white shirts on, but they didn't have high viz on. Edited that again

 

[Cress]

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[Cress]

3 x I can think of the police have saved my neck
1. From NF junkie skins who wanted to play on our system
2. When the NF campaigned in Fenham and they helpfully arrested the candidate and the National speaker
3. A line of wired riot cops running towards me and my mate with sticks and shields and a couple of local police were with us and said it’s alright we already got these.

 

[Laughing]

I was only doing the job for 2 and a half years and didn't see anything that crossed the line, so hard to answer that question. I saw different styles and the odd person acting like a bit of a d*ck and doing things differently to how I would, but nothing like what you see reported in the news and nothing against the law or even guidelines.

Things like being overly harsh issuing tickets for minor traffic offences when a warning would suffice etc.

It was also 20 years ago and of course times have changed.

However I do think it would be difficult to challenge inappropriate behaviour or report it. You'd probably raise it with a superior initially, but if they dont have your back, probably takes a lot of courage to take it further. Depending on what it is of course.

As you imply even harder for younger more inexperienced officers. I was 22 at the time with very little real life experience. I can't say for certain what I'd have done if I'd witnessed something that did cross the line. Now I'm in my early 40s I'd be much more confident standing my ground and that I would take action.

Which is another issue, most coppers join when they're young and are more easily influenced/controlled by more experienced officers.

The point you raise about complaints or challenges to police behaviour is valid. The vast majority of complaints are raised in the first instance to the nearest police station, and are dismissed, rightly or wrongly. Only 42% off complaints raised are recorded because the officer handling the complaint thinks it has some merit. Another 34% are recorded only because the complainant insists after the officer initially dismisses it.

48% of complaints are about how the police deliver the service. 21% are to do with police procedures, powers and policies. 17% are individual behaviours. Thats 86% of complaints are directied at how the police handled an interaction. Again I have no idea how valid these complaints are.

It paints a picture that suggests police need more training on interacting with the public, something the Met recognised in 2020 with a complete re-working of their training and policies around conflict management.

 

[atypical_boro]

I’ve been a copper for a long time. I’m at the point when I can’t remember anything else.
Despite the comments from many on here I am immensely proud of what I do.
I don’t seek your approval, what I do seek is an understanding that we are the same, we want what’s best for ourselves and the people we care about.
In my work, which is more than a job for me I try to help people, I also try to enhance the reputation of the police with every interaction I have with people I have cause to speak with.
I care deeply about society, can see the erosion of communities, the fact that there are people in society without the main ingredient that you cannot live without and that is hope. I am aware of this fact when I have to consider why sometimes people do things that are wrong.
I’ve seen so much violence that I’ve become desensitised to it, I’m not a violent person or a bully but have had to confront things that many would run from.
If you met me you wouldn’t think I was a bobby, you’d probably think I was an average blue collar bloke, a builder, labourer, plasterer etc.
For the last few years, I’ve been a detective. I spend 80 percent of my time speaking to people who have been sexually abused. I interview kids who have had horrendous things done to them, its hard on you believe me, it messes with your head, it saps your soul. The job has taken things from me that I can never get back.
People treat me differently when they find out what I do for a living. I was once at a BBQ, having a laugh with some lads, getting on well. I went to the toilet, the window was open. I heard one lad say to another “**** me, you didn’t tell me he was a pig, I thought he was sound, sneaky ****” my wife and kids were there ffs. Irony was this lad was 5’2” and probably about 18 clem. Calling me a pig?? I wanted to go home but didn’t.
If I caught a colleague breaking the law, I’d nick him in a heartbeat.
I do not tell lies ever!
This is the only social media I use, I’ve read comments on here from people whose posts usually make me laugh, I have tried to picture what they look like. The comments they have made upset me in all honesty.
I can’t put the news on without seeing people slating the police. Admittedly there’s been some shocking things done by people who call themselves police, nobody is angrier than me about it!
I am from a mixed race family, I feel it’s worth mentioning as many are of the belief that black people don’t trust the police, for obvious reasons this really bothers me.
I am considering giving FMTTM a miss, it’s a shame as I like it on here.
Even people I love tell me I’ve changed, they ask me what’s happened to ‘the old me’
I’ve got a colleague or two who frequent this site and I’ll probably get the **** taken out of me for this post.
UTB.

Good post. I should have clarified that my comments/beliefs about black people not trusting the police are only borne out of my own experience. My wife comes from a huge family, they are all black or mixed race, and I know many of their friends who are also black/mixed race. My wife is one of few from this particular cohort of people (in fact she may be the only one) who trusts the police, probably helped by the fact her best friend is a DSU in the Met.

As I say, I don't know how to solve the problem, its just what I see/hear and it doesn't reflect my own views necessarily and I am not saying it is entirely justified (I am certainly not anti-police in any way and I most definitely don't want to live in a world without them). Obviously you have your own experience of this, which may be different, and I fully respect that you do a very tough job for a living.

 

[atypical_boro]

3. A line of wired riot cops running towards me and my mate with sticks and shields and a couple of local police were with us and said it’s alright we already got these.

Where was this one? Sounds pretty exciting/terrifying! I had something a little bit similar in Warsaw when Poland were playing Russia but I managed to run away.