Gove harassed on the street

ConLeche

Member
that's the difference between accountability and responsibility. We are all accountable for our own decision making, but some of the responsibility can come from elsewhere and in this example seems to be from the victim.
We are responsible for our actions, thats irrefutable whether we are held to account is another matter. Regardless, we are now engaged primarily in semantics and it diverts from the original issue - the people harassing gove are no better than moronic football hooligans, edl supporters, the rabble at black friday sales or those who were stocking up on toilet paper last summer - all ar$e wipes
 

BaronSmoggie

Well-known member
Why what?

Why should pro-vaccine/pro-lockdown people be shouting? For the reason I gave in the post you're quoting. Our case numbers are mental compared to the rest of Europe. We probably should be doing something like another lockdown or more vaccinating to get them down again.

Why do I feel like I'm missing something? Because the people apparently on that protest seem to have the outcome they want now. Some people just can't take yes for an answer.
That was they why I was asking. People who have been vaccinated and are for lockdown are busy continuing to make sure they and their families are safe and in general just getting on with things. The anti-vaxxers/lockdown mostly seem to be protesting about conspiracy theories about governmental control, 5G and Bill gates taking over the world. Like you say, they have the answer they want yet still they protest, which makes them look like fools not knowing what they are actually protesting for. Why would the pro lot want to be associated with that through protests?
 

Ex Footy Legs

Well-known member
This thread has been misread, as I thought it might be. So just to be clear, and to repeat what I said at the very top, he doesn't deserve it. Nobody does.

A mob has been deliberately stoked and allowed to fester. It's not nice, it's a frightening state of affairs and I don't know where we go from here, because reason and facts have been thrown to the dogs.
‘because reason and facts have been thrown to the dogs’

by Gove himself

Or we could cite ; Johnson or Patel or Farage or Raab or Davies or Truss or……………fill in the Tory blank name
 

Billy69_uk

Well-known member
as much as I think Gove to be a whimpering bell end, and he absolutely is, Given recent terrible events, this incident is extremely stupid and ill advised.

It effectively gives the government a free hand to introduce all kinds of legislation under the veil of national security,
 

Ex Footy Legs

Well-known member
Provocation is mitigation not defence, and I agree the conduct of Johnson and co is beyond the pale and I've posted as much on a regular basis, whilst I understand the anger felt by people, I believe the kind of scenes we witnessed yesterday are not part of the solution, they just give more power to the very people that should be disarmed to further twist the knife.

Clarity or simplicity, call it what you will, but by saying that in certain circumstances haranguing an individual is acceptable is exactly the same exceptionalism and deference of responsibility that you're, rightly, criticising in Government, sometimes a binary solution, in this case never manhandle a politician, is the best response to a complex situation, on every occassion the assault will be the focus and the protest secondary.
Hmmmm….a lot of words there….
In essence, Gove stokes or stoked division and extreme reactions and the government continues this with NI so when they become the target of that which they created then there is a certain irony there.
I’m not suggesting anyone deserves this but if one has any awareness they must accept their behavior could be used against them
 

MolteniArcore

Well-known member
I don't agree with any harassment of MP's or any attacks but I do wonder what the Conservatives expected when they make decisions that directly make people poorer and more desperate, then they attack people in the media but then give the public no opportunity to democratically change what is happening.

I wouldn't be surprised if we have riots this winter when people can't afford to heat their homes and eat.
 

Rofesleg

Well-known member
No it doesn't. I liked it because I don't believe he's a good person, but also because it says the opposite of what you suggest it says.
OK. But the reason for not wanting it to happen are a bit odd. Suggesting the only reason they don't want him killed by a mob is because of the good 'publicity' he will receive afterwards.
 

BoroMart

Well-known member
We are responsible for our actions, thats irrefutable whether we are held to account is another matter. Regardless, we are now engaged primarily in semantics and it diverts from the original issue - the people harassing gove are no better than moronic football hooligans, edl supporters, the rabble at black friday sales or those who were stocking up on toilet paper last summer - all ar$e wipes
and billionaires and politicians and social media influencers with rhetoric aimed at an uneducated population are responsible for their behaviours which irrefutably influences people.

We are social animals, and politicians are in the business of building societies, billionaires are in the world of influencing politicians and therefore societies. We are all part nature and part nurture. We are all born with the ability to make rational decisions but some of us don't have that nurtured through poor access to education and a societal system that creates prejudices to a whole host of subjects.
 

Laughing

Well-known member
When politicians add fuel to the fires of ignorance, prejudice and bigotry, the results are predictable.
Physical attacks and abuse become part of the fabric of society....
I agree Roofie, our society is mirroring the leadership.

I have more sympathy for the starving kids around the country than a rich entitled mp that created a society where these things are absolutely bound to happen.
 

Unravel_Morrison

Well-known member
I agree Roofie, our society is mirroring the leadership.

I have more sympathy for the starving kids around the country than a rich entitled mp that created a society where these things are absolutely bound to happen.
I'm not sure that it's necessarily society that mirrors the leadership.

The people harassing Gove are mainly going to be Conservatives or at least leaning that way politically. They, themselves, are mirroring their leaders.
 

festa5

Well-known member
I'm not sure that it's necessarily society that mirrors the leadership.

The people harassing Gove are mainly going to be Conservatives or at least leaning that way politically. They, themselves, are mirroring their leaders.

Yep, that was my thought. Theyre idiots. But probably the same idiots Gove and chums have been targeting with their daft rhetoric and dog whistling.

Should it happen and is it acceptable? Definitely not, the imbeciles need locking up. But there's definitely an element of reap what you sow with it.
 
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