Gove harassed on the street

SmallTown

Well-known member
Gove and his policies has resulted in the resentment and anger many feel in this country. That said, the group were wrong for their approach. Fair enough give the bloke some stick, but don't follow him about and charge him.
Yeah it's a tough one for these very reasons isn't it? Gove and the rest of the Junta have deliberately stoked hatred, division and the need to create enemies. So it's hardtop feel sympathy when he's a victim of his own plans.

But after what happened last week its very unpleasant to watch.

The government need to stop their policy of division and hatred. The need to stop creating false enemies and an environment of hostility. Before someone else dies.

The sad thing is I don't think they will
 

ConLeche

Member
Gove and his policies has resulted in the resentment and anger many feel in this country. That said, the group were wrong for their approach. Fair enough give the bloke some stick, but don't follow him about and charge him.
Youre advocating publicly berating someone for what they do in their professional life? When does "stick" cross the line? - which is the point I am making, it creates an atmosphere of licence. There are other, more constructive and appropriate channels for challenging politicians or indeed anyone that you disagree with. No good comes of excusing this type of behaviour and it has no place in a civilised society, no one can claim to be an intelligent and civilised member of society if they behave in this way.
 

ConLeche

Member
your observations may have some validity but its not acceptable now and wasnt any more acceptable last week before the MP was murdered. Anyone acting in contravention to common decency takes full and sole responsibility for their lack of self control. They must be made an example of to send a message, we tolerate too much public disorder in this country
Yeah it's a tough one for these very reasons isn't it? Gove and the rest of the Junta have deliberately stoked hatred, division and the need to create enemies. So it's hardtop feel sympathy when he's a victim of his own plans.

But after what happened last week its very unpleasant to watch.

The government need to stop their policy of division and hatred. The need to stop creating false enemies and an environment of hostility. Before someone else dies.

The sad thing is I don't think they will
 

BaronSmoggie

Well-known member
I don't advocate vigilantism or violence in any form, but I would be lying if there wasn't a very small part of me that feels Gove deserved to feel alarmed for his own safety because he helped push the narrative about not needing experts that was one aspect of what led to people behaving like this.

I'm glad he's OK, but I'd be even happier if he quit government completely.
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
your observations may have some validity but its not acceptable now and wasnt any more acceptable last week before the MP was murdered. Anyone acting in contravention to common decency takes full and sole responsibility for their lack of self control. They must be made an example of to send a message, we tolerate too much public disorder in this country
To be clear I never said it was acceptable. It's just the cabinet fan the flames of division and hatred. They use loaded language and rhetoric to create hostility and false enemies.

Therefore they should be the ones responsible for fixing it.

I suspect they won't. In fact I suspect they will use the hatred to deflect onto another group of people.
 

Ex Footy Legs

Well-known member
Totally out of order at any time but as others have said given what happened in Leigh on Sea last week even more so at the moment, it doesn't matter what side of the political fence you sit on incidents like this do not help foster a better atmosphere of less polarity, the downside is more draconian laws and less access to representatives which further disconnect between the people and Parliament, it's good to see that the police acted promptly to prevent further escalation of a situation that could have tuned ugly.

The right not be rushed by a mob has no political right or left leaning it's simply a case of right from wrong, shout from a distance by all means but there are no circumstances where protest needs to get up close and personal in this way.
A lot of what you’ve written I agree with in normal times whereby people and politicians take responsibility for their words and occasionally, actions.

Trouble is politicians (in particular ministers and the PM) don’t take responsibility for their words which indirectly informs people that ‘rules and high moral principles’ are less important than getting where or what you want. That’s a message, in particular, a dangerous message because the nuanced position is ‘do what you like’

Just a reminder of this is the aftermath of the referendum result, desperately close yet, these are the same people who ‘inferred’ public disorder if the result wasn’t seen ‘through’ in its entirety.

Never a mention - ever for the millions who disagreed and a nod to those people to find some middle ground : oh no, all we got was unbalanced views and a ; you lost, we can do what we want now (and they effing did)

Whilst at the same time, Citing public disorder way back then, (a veiled threat by a minister) and now as the lies are exposed (regarding Brexit) and double standards exist regarding lockdown rules (re; Carries mate over for Xmas last year/Cummings et al) it’s no surprise the people are just following the extremely low bar of standards in everyday life IN THIS COUNTRY.

So, given the example being set by our ‘leaders’ I think your post is overly simplistic and requires deeper thought to fully grasp what’s unfolding in this country.
 

Ex Footy Legs

Well-known member
To be clear I never said it was acceptable. It's just the cabinet fan the flames of division and hatred. They use loaded language and rhetoric to create hostility and false enemies.

Therefore they should be the ones responsible for fixing it.

I suspect they won't. In fact I suspect they will use the hatred to deflect onto another group of people.
Great post
 

Muttley

Well-known member
What happened to Gove shouldn't happen.

That said, he was accompanied by what seemed to be half the Metropolitan Police. The murder of Michael Amess was somewhat different in that he was carrying out a constituency surgery and was attacked by a single armed man who went there (it seems) specifically for that purpose and he was unprotected. It is unpleasant for Mr. Gove but ultimately not that dangerous. Governments that have stoked division have to bear some responsibility for the consequences of their actions, however unwanted. "Yes, officer I lit the fuse but I didn't think the bomb would go off"

This Government is not above staging things like this, remember Rhys-Mogg taking his son through a crowd when he could have exited away from them? Watching the video it appears that Gove is walking alone but as the confrontation happens about 10 plod magically appear...
 

BoroMart

Well-known member
Giving the events of last week not sure that mobbing mp’s is wise. I not gove biggest fan to say the least but you’ve got to feel sorry for him here. I’m not sure we can really say he brought it on himself
I think his point is, that if you demonise experts, then claim you are the expert that will solve an issue, you are in effect asking people to demonise yourself. From that respect his behaviour and words have led to a thoroughly predictable result.
 

ConLeche

Member
Each individual is responsible for their own actions and controlling how they react.
To be clear I never said it was acceptable. It's just the cabinet fan the flames of division and hatred. They use loaded language and rhetoric to create hostility and false enemies.

Therefore they should be the ones responsible for fixing it.

I suspect they won't. In fact I suspect they will use the hatred to deflect onto another group of people
 

SuperStu

Well-known member
Feel like I'm missing something here. Nobody is forced to get the vaccine and we're not in a lockdown anymore. What do anti-vaccers or anti-lockdown people have to protest about?

43,000 new positive cases yesterday. Maybe pro-vaccine and pro-lockdown people should be the ones doing the shouting. :unsure:
 

HarryVegas

Well-known member
This thread has been misread, as I thought it might be. So just to be clear, and to repeat what I said at the very top, he doesn't deserve it. Nobody does.

A mob has been deliberately stoked and allowed to fester. It's not nice, it's a frightening state of affairs and I don't know where we go from here, because reason and facts have been thrown to the dogs.
 

BaronSmoggie

Well-known member
Feel like I'm missing something here. Nobody is forced to get the vaccine and we're not in a lockdown anymore. What do anti-vaccers or anti-lockdown people have to protest about?

43,000 new positive cases yesterday. Maybe pro-vaccine and pro-lockdown people should be the ones doing the shouting. :unsure:
Why?
 

ConLeche

Member
Definitely contributory factors without doubt, i dont think anyone would argue against that but ultimate respsonibility for how you behave rests entirely with oneself. I
 

SuperStu

Well-known member

Why what?

Why should pro-vaccine/pro-lockdown people be shouting? For the reason I gave in the post you're quoting. Our case numbers are mental compared to the rest of Europe. We probably should be doing something like another lockdown or more vaccinating to get them down again.

Why do I feel like I'm missing something? Because the people apparently on that protest seem to have the outcome they want now. Some people just can't take yes for an answer.
 

American_Mary

Well-known member
A lot of what you’ve written I agree with in normal times whereby people and politicians take responsibility for their words and occasionally, actions.

Trouble is politicians (in particular ministers and the PM) don’t take responsibility for their words which indirectly informs people that ‘rules and high moral principles’ are less important than getting where or what you want. That’s a message, in particular, a dangerous message because the nuanced position is ‘do what you like’

Just a reminder of this is the aftermath of the referendum result, desperately close yet, these are the same people who ‘inferred’ public disorder if the result wasn’t seen ‘through’ in its entirety.

Never a mention - ever for the millions who disagreed and a nod to those people to find some middle ground : oh no, all we got was unbalanced views and a ; you lost, we can do what we want now (and they effing did)

Whilst at the same time, Citing public disorder way back then, (a veiled threat by a minister) and now as the lies are exposed (regarding Brexit) and double standards exist regarding lockdown rules (re; Carries mate over for Xmas last year/Cummings et al) it’s no surprise the people are just following the extremely low bar of standards in everyday life IN THIS COUNTRY.

So, given the example being set by our ‘leaders’ I think your post is overly simplistic and requires deeper thought to fully grasp what’s unfolding in this country.
Provocation is mitigation not defence, and I agree the conduct of Johnson and co is beyond the pale and I've posted as much on a regular basis, whilst I understand the anger felt by people, I believe the kind of scenes we witnessed yesterday are not part of the solution, they just give more power to the very people that should be disarmed to further twist the knife.

Clarity or simplicity, call it what you will, but by saying that in certain circumstances haranguing an individual is acceptable is exactly the same exceptionalism and deference of responsibility that you're, rightly, criticising in Government, sometimes a binary solution, in this case never manhandle a politician, is the best response to a complex situation, on every occassion the assault will be the focus and the protest secondary.
 
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BoroMart

Well-known member
Definitely contributory factors without doubt, i dont think anyone would argue against that but ultimate respsonibility for how you behave rests entirely with oneself. I
that's the difference between accountability and responsibility. We are all accountable for our own decision making, but some of the responsibility can come from elsewhere and in this example seems to be from the victim.
 
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