George Russell in a merc - tops both time sheets in practice

zorro_mfc

Well-known member
I’m highlighting how ludicrous it is when a driver that has yet to get a single point could easily win the gp on Sunday simply for being in that car

Which yes does show the huge advantage Lewis and bottas have simply being in that car..

As I say it opens the driver over car debate.
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
I'm really uncomfortable with the inference that 'anyone could win in that Mercedes' when quite evidently they can't. Bottas being the obvious example.

Hamilton has won the championship when he's had the best car and he's won it in seasons when he hasn't had the best car.

The best drivers end up in the best teams that's just life.
Agreed. There’s a reason Russel is a contracted Mercedes driver
 

zorro_mfc

Well-known member
he's won it in seasons when he hasn't had the best car.

That’s debatable certainly in the hybrid era that had been formula Mercedes so much so Ferrari had to cheat the rules to even try and compete and still lost.

Now they are 100% compliant and look at them vying with Renault for 8th at times

That merc is on another planet.
 

WilliamMunny

Active member
The anti-Hamilton sentiment amuses me to be honest. The fact is the 2020 Merc is the best car on the grid and I don't think anyone denies that, but Hamilton has been cruising to victories by a pit stop or more ahead of Bottas on a fairly regular basis. Russell might beat Bottas this weekend - and I hope he does - but it won't be by such a huge margin. It's also worth remembering that Bottas beats Hamilton in practice and qualifying far more than he does in an actual race. So being quick over a lap, as Russell obviously is, doesn't prove anything in terms of race craft.

I'd love to see Russell replace Bottas in the Merc and I think he'd prove to be more of a challenge to Hamilton, then hopefully be his successor as champion. However, to expect him to win this weekend is a big ask. For my money, unless the car fails him (i.e. reliability), Verstappen is nailed on to win this weekend. And if he does, I think that would show that, whilst the Merc is the pre-eminant car on the grid, it's only unbeatable in the hands of the GOAT.
 

zorro_mfc

Well-known member
And Button, who partnered Hamilton at McLaren between 2010-12, believes Mercedes’ dominance has played a huge part in Hamilton’s success, but equally so has a lack of pressure from his current team-mate Valtteri Bottas.

“Comparing records is a tricky one,” he told Autosport when asked about Hamilton’s standing in Formula 1.

“We all like a number and we all like to beat a number, but it’s really difficult to compare.

“All you can say is he’s done the best job he can and the team have done a fantastic job, they’ve not been beaten in the hybrid era and Lewis has won all but one Championship with them.

“I don’t see that changing either. It’s going to continue until he stops, or until he gets a team-mate that can actually challenge him.

“He’s definitely learned from his team-mates, and he’s definitely a more rounded driver than when we were team-mates. But if he had a team-mate like Max [Verstappen], we would see a different driver from Lewis.

I agree with Jenson.
 

zorro_mfc

Well-known member
Isn’t the onerous on the other teams to become better at making a car?

it’s like saying gareth bales champions league medals are devalued cos he’s in the best team
That’s the point they can’t now as in season testing has been removed so yes cars improve over a season you don’t see the massive improvements you used to.

So basically what you see at Melbourne is pretty much it for the season as we’ve seen with Ferrari they fked up the winter and never recovered.
 

Randy

Well-known member
I’m highlighting how ludicrous it is when a driver that has yet to get a single point could easily win the gp on Sunday simply for being in that car

Which yes does show the huge advantage Lewis and bottas have simply being in that car..

As I say it opens the driver over car debate.
You are massively downplaying George's talent there. Look at what he's got out of the slowest car on the grid this season.

There is a reason Toto called him and not Stoffel or Hulk
 

zorro_mfc

Well-known member
I’m not George is a talent but he’s not got a point in 37 races so to go from that to potentially winning shows the disparity he had to endure at Williams.

Lewis good very good but all this GOAT crap is an insult to the true greats like Jim Clarke, fangio, Senna, lauda that risked their lives just to compete and sadly for some paid the ultimate price.
 

Alzi

Well-known member
Hamilton has consistently bettered his team mates, including Alonso when he was a rookie.

if he was an average driver he wouldn’t be driving for Mercedes.

I like Vettel and he won 4 championships in the fastest car in the field. But when Vettel had a very competitive Ferrari a couple of seasons back he couldn’t hack it and the pressure from Hamilton consistently resulted in him making daft mistakes.

The only time Hamilton was bettered (due to mechanical issues rather than anything else) by a team mate, Rosberg realised it was a fluke and retired straight away.
 

zorro_mfc

Well-known member
I like Vettel and he won 4 championships in the fastest car in the field.
Exactly he won 4 but he was not the goat either as they said on sky had vettel gone to Mercedes he’d prob have 7 titles as well.

You can’t compare different eras is my point
 

ThirdLeg

Well-known member
You’re putting a lot of effort into discrediting the achievements of one of the most consistently high performing sportsmen of all time. It’s a bit strange

I don’t know anyone that would argue that lewis Hamilton would win the championship in the Williams. I’m not sure what the driver over car debate you allude to is about. It’s obviously very difficult to win in a **** car.
 

zorro_mfc

Well-known member
I have an issue with all The goat stuff modern F1 is a **** take compared to what came before.

Far too much emphasis on team planning and pre race tactics and simulators takes away seats of the pants wheel to wheel racing of the past.

I watched rush again last night and to see what that era went through was incredible. Btw I’m Not referring to the film as a point of reference as I was watching the race to perfection documentary that showed the real footage from that era. Amazing how dangerous F1 once was.

The grosjean incident was every week back then.

Anyway roll on Sunday let’s see what happens.

Good luck George
 
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BoroFur

Well-known member
I’m not George is a talent but he’s not got a point in 37 races so to go from that to potentially winning shows the disparity he had to endure at Williams.

Lewis good very good but all this GOAT crap is an insult to the true greats like Jim Clarke, fangio, Senna, lauda that risked their lives just to compete and sadly for some paid the ultimate price.
Hamilton is a true great as is Schumacher. To be mentioned in the same breath as those drivers from a different era is not an insult to them. As usual Zorro you're just allowing your obvious dislike of Hamilton get in the way of any objective view.
 

ThirdLeg

Well-known member
Lol that’s funny I had a more adversarial post typed out that went on to state that formula ones about fine margins and its not the movie Rush but I ditched it because I’m about peace and love these days
 

zorro_mfc

Well-known member
Lewis will win next years world championship and Mercedes will win constructors. This is before a wheel has been turned I know it you know we all know it

That can’t be right
 

ThirdLeg

Well-known member
Also almost everyone in my life that’s told me Fangio is the best driver ever wasn’t old enough to watch him. But given this is fmttm it seems very possible you could be

as for risking their lives did you watch last weeks race?

In my opinion it would be pretty **** watching fangio trundle around a track slower than my daily commuter would go round. But to each their own
 

ThirdLeg

Well-known member
Lewis will win next years world championship and Mercedes will win constructors. This is before a wheel has been turned I know it you know we all know it

That can’t be right
I agree we need more competition but it’s hardly Hamilton’s fault red bull and Ferrari are so bad
 
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