Genuine question for EV owners

[Andy_W]

Just saw a thing last night that the new Nio, aimed at the Model 3 will have over 620 mile range, costing less than 40k, effectively the first car with a semi solid state battery, that's come a lot sooner than expected (Sep 22 in China, early 2023 in Europe).

I still don't think that range is anywhere near necessary mind, and range isn't the future, charging speed and more faster chargers is. Nobody with home charging needs more than 300 mile range, as nobody should or would be driving that long without a decent break, they would be more efficient in a smaller battery car. At least this will put the range topic to bed though, but by then most will realise it's barely even a point.

A prototype Telsa Model S just drove 750 miles on one charge also, which I think was a test of their new 4680 battery, which is due in mass production in 2023. These batteries are far more efficient, weigh less, use less resources and are cheaper too.

These battery changes seem a lot sooner than I expected, be interesting if/ when the full solid state batteries get developed and start to roll out.

 

[Teesste]

Just saw a thing last night that the new Nio, aimed at the Model 3 will have over 620 mile range, costing less than 40k, effectively the first car with a semi solid state battery, that's come a lot sooner than expected (Sep 22 in China, early 2023 in Europe).

I still don't think that range is anywhere near necessary mind, and range isn't the future, charging speed and more faster chargers is. Nobody with home charging needs more than 300 mile range, as nobody should or would be driving that long without a decent break, they would be more efficient in a smaller battery car. At least this will put the range topic to bed though, but by then most will realise it's barely even a point.

A prototype Telsa Model S just drove 750 miles on one charge also, which I think was a test of their new 4680 battery, which is due in mass production in 2023. These batteries are far more efficient, weigh less, use less resources and are cheaper too.

These battery changes seem a lot sooner than I expected, be interesting if/ when the full solid state batteries get developed and start to roll out.

Longer range batteries will surely bring about the tipping point of EV's vs ICE as there will kill the main 'excuse' (if thats the right word) people have for not getting one.

As i've mentioned before on various EV threads my next car will almost certainly be an EV as I do c15-20k miles p.a. with a good 5,000 of those being business miles that I claim back at 45p per mile from my employer so this will be a massive win for me moving forward when I can continue to claim.

I have to say i was pushed further down the EV route this morning when I had to set off early for work and stood in the cold and rain pouring £85 into my fuel tank!

 

[Andy_W]

I think it's over stated, rather than non-existent.

I don't give it a second thought really. Of course an EV point can have an issue. But as we have seen a petrol station can run out as well.

Yeah, that's a shorthand version of what I'm saying

I think for anyone with 200 mile range, "normal" use, and home charging it's not even worth thinking about.

 

[Andy_W]

Longer range batteries will surely bring about the tipping point of EV's vs ICE as there will kill the main 'excuse' (if thats the right word) people have for not getting one.

As i've mentioned before on various EV threads my next car will almost certainly be an EV as I do c15-20k miles p.a. with a good 5,000 of those being business miles that I claim back at 45p per mile from my employer so this will be a massive win for me moving forward when I can continue to claim.

I have to say i was pushed further down the EV route this morning when I had to set off early for work and stood in the cold and rain pouring £85 into my fuel tank!

They're largely not necessary, not more than 300 miles anyway, as anyone is stopping long before then anyway, and stopping long enough to fill that up again. But if it stops the argument then fair enough. Only instance I can see longer ranges being worthwhile is someone who has a 100 mile round trip commute and no home charger, but the market/ infrastructure isn't ready for those yet, so I wouldn't reccommend an EV to someone in that scenario, but some do make it work.

Carrying the extra weight/ range to cater for 10% of their typical miles makes no sense to me, for most people with home charging.

The daft thing is, the thing I like most is getting into a warm car every morning, and it's daft that ICE cars didn't do this a long time ago. I know BMW's can do it in Europe, but I don't think the UK approved it, so never had the pre warm feature in any of my previous cars. I know some ICE's do now, but not sure how they do it, unless the UK criteria changed.

 

[SmallTown]

Longer range batteries will surely bring about the tipping point of EV's vs ICE as there will kill the main 'excuse' (if thats the right word) people have for not getting one.

As i've mentioned before on various EV threads my next car will almost certainly be an EV as I do c15-20k miles p.a. with a good 5,000 of those being business miles that I claim back at 45p per mile from my employer so this will be a massive win for me moving forward when I can continue to claim.

I have to say i was pushed further down the EV route this morning when I had to set off early for work and stood in the cold and rain pouring £85 into my fuel tank!

Yeah, I think because of the way things are: Longer range batteries have to be produced straight away to counteract a perceived, but not actual, problem with EV and improve take up.

Once we are all used to EV, those who want city cars will realise they will happily sacrifice 100s of miles of range for a lighter vehicle and faster charging. As you point out though, the current perception is that range is the problem so it will have to increase.

If you really want me to expand on why I know range anxiety shouldn't exist: It's based specifically on the country: We live in a small, and densely populated country. A range of 200 miles gets you a really long way across it without stopping at all. A lot of countries are the same, or (like the US) are bigger but with infrastructure to cope. So range anxiety isn't a thing here. If you live in, say, Australia, then yes I completely understand why range anxiety would be a thing. A vast, sparsely populated country, is currently unsuitable for EV. Other countries the extreme goes the other way: in most long range EV you could drive round the entire country of Singapore twice on a single charge. Those places need ranges of about 5 miles, no more!

 

[Billy69_uk]

Longer range batteries will surely bring about the tipping point of EV's vs ICE as there will kill the main 'excuse' (if thats the right word) people have for not getting one.

As i've mentioned before on various EV threads my next car will almost certainly be an EV as I do c15-20k miles p.a. with a good 5,000 of those being business miles that I claim back at 45p per mile from my employer so this will be a massive win for me moving forward when I can continue to claim.

I have to say i was pushed further down the EV route this morning when I had to set off early for work and stood in the cold and rain pouring £85 into my fuel tank!

I guess the 45p a mile is what you can claim for using your own car on company business?



If its a company car the rates you can claim are

Rates​

The advisory electricity rate for fully electric cars is 5 pence per mile.

Hybrid cars are treated as either petrol or diesel cars for advisory fuel rates.

 

[Andy_W]

Other countries the extreme goes the other way: in most long range EV you could drive round the entire country of Singapore twice on a single charge. Those places need ranges of about 5 miles, no more!

Thing to factor with that though, is people wouldn't want to charge every day, and unlikely have home charging, so the minimum should always be 100 miles I think.

 

[Andy_W]

I guess the 45p a mile is what you can claim for using your own car on company business?



If its a company car the rates you can claim are

Rates​

The advisory electricity rate for fully electric cars is 5 pence per mile.

Hybrid cars are treated as either petrol or diesel cars for advisory fuel rates.

I think he means a personal car, as you can only claim 9-22p for an ICE, if it's a company car, albeit I'm not sure why you would claim mileage charges on a company car, assuming the company is paying for the car, and the fuel? Or is that claiming mileage back, assuming you're paying fuel yourself, didn't even know this was a thing?

 

[Billy69_uk]

I think he means a personal car, as you can only claim 9-22p for an ICE, if it's a company car, albeit I'm not sure why you would claim mileage charges on a company car, assuming the company is paying for the car, and the fuel? Or is that claiming mileage back, assuming you're paying fuel yourself, didn't even know this was a thing?

I have a company car, but dont have fully expensed fuel, so I can claim business mileage back at 15p a mile.

On my last car I did decide to take the fully expensed fuel, where all my fuel is paid for both personal and business mileage. There is a BIK charge for this expensed fuel, which I think was about £120 a month (I cant remember the exact number) so the choice is base don how much private mileage you do and I think the break even point was about 9000 private miles a year where the BIK tax would be less then the fuel you would have to pay for your private mileage.

If my next company car is an EV, I will need to claim the business mileage back at 5p a mile through our expense system at work.

 

[BoroMart]

Longer range batteries will surely bring about the tipping point of EV's vs ICE as there will kill the main 'excuse' (if thats the right word) people have for not getting one.

agreed, it will reduce one of the key misconceptions. That just leaves initial cost as the point of contention for many. But we see prices reducing all the time in the EV market

 

[Teesste]

Yeah i

I think he means a personal car, as you can only claim 9-22p for an ICE, if it's a company car, albeit I'm not sure why you would claim mileage charges on a company car, assuming the company is paying for the car, and the fuel? Or is that claiming mileage back, assuming you're paying fuel yourself, didn't even know this was a thing?

Yeah I have my own car and claim back the mileage I do going to meetings etc at a rate of 45p per mile. That would be the case for both my current ICE and a new EV.

Frustratingly theres not enough of us that do travel to justify the company giving company cars out although I am working on them offering the Salary Sacrifice Scheme as a compromise

 

[Same_as_before]

It's a bit odd but a one or two fanatical pro EV views on here reminds of the Brexit debate. I am trying to think why.

 

[Steve8778]

I won't be buying an EV until I have to. My car does 700 miles on a full tank and I don't really want to downgrade to 250/300 miles.

 

[SmallTown]

I won't be buying an EV until I have to. My car does 700 miles on a full tank and I don't really want to downgrade to 250/300 miles.

It's your prerogative and I totally get that, but I would always ask why?

Like I've said multiple times on here, it's really strange once you get an EV. You think you need huge range, you think this will be an issue and it really just isn't.

I'm just wondering how you formed the opinion you need a vehicle with a 700 mile range? It's curious to me because (like all EV owners) I know this is a none issue.

 

[Same_as_before]

I won't be buying an EV until I have to. My car does 700 miles on a full tank and I don't really want to downgrade to 250/300 miles.

That puts you in a few ignored lists, join the club.

 

[Steve8778]

It's your prerogative and I totally get that, but I would always ask why?

Like I've said multiple times on here, it's really strange once you get an EV. You think you need huge range, you think this will be an issue and it really just isn't.

I'm just wondering how you formed the opinion you need a vehicle with a 700 mile range? It's curious to me because (like all EV owners) I know this is a none issue.

Because I do a lot of commuting, midweek games at the Riverside, away games, trips back home on the weekends etc, 300 mile charge wouldn't cut it and I don't want to stop and charge.

 

[SmallTown]

Because I do a lot of commuting, midweek games at the Riverside, away games, trips back home on the weekends etc, 300 mile charge wouldn't cut it and I don't want to stop and charge.

Ok. I could get into a debate and ask you to break down your long journeys, frequency and routine but apparently helping solve a problem upsets people so I'll leave it there

 

[Unravel_Morrison]

It's a bit odd but a one or two fanatical pro EV views on here reminds of the Brexit debate. I am trying to think why.

Is it because you're an old contrarian?

 

[Same_as_before]

Is it because you're an old contrarian?

Hmmm, thinks about it, Yes.

 

[Andy_W]

It's a bit odd but a one or two fanatical pro EV views on here reminds of the Brexit debate. I am trying to think why.

Brexit wasn't a debate, it was/ is a massive economical **** up, and a load of people were suckered in by fear and hate.
TCO for EV's is a clear winner, and the "issues" aren't really "issues" when it comes to reality for most, with home charging, who have an interest in relatively new cars.

People believe in what is right, and there's a massive lack of evidence against both of the above statements, all we get in reply are soundbites, lacking detail, or failure to engage in detail. All we get in response is the old fart in a lift and leg it, then go and fart in another lift and leg it from there etc.