Full backs are the problem

We’ll look much better defensively with Fry and McNair back in defence - two proper defenders. We just need someone else solid to go with them on the LCB position
 
The Boro UC said:
Good points Andy, I dont suggest we change the strategy, I just think we have a weakness with full backs not doing their defending well. That for Mr Wilder and co to sort out. We dont want to be a gungo team with domination of posession with weaknesses at the back is all I'm saying.
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I'm happy to accept some weakness, as the benefit from it is absolutely massive, it allows centre mid domination, and tow players up top to aim at, it ticks a lot of boxes.

We just need the right targets to aim at, and still think we're missing that key striker, but hopefully, he's near, then we're going to batter some teams.
 
I'm not sure it's the wing backs as such, but the collective "protection" the back 5 offers.

Giles and Jones are essentially attackers, which is fine providing a solid foundation of three at the back. Playing two full backs at CB is great with the ball but their tactical and positional naivety without the ball has been exposed a few times this season.

I think an actual LCB plus Lenihan could work and effectively mop up any issues created by Djiksteel on the right. Although I think Paddy will offer stiff competition at RCB when we have a full squad.
 
GazC_MFC said:
That’s the point of football. You can choose to be more defensive and crate less clear cut chances like karanka

Or you choose to be more attacking but accept you’ll concede more chances.

Throw into that we have new players and a relatively new system then we may concede more while we transition

For me the xg stats tell me that we are in the right path and eventually it’ll click
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I think we've failed to win all 3 league games just because of this though, how long can we keep battering teams with posession then gifting goals at the back. I like Wilder and hopefully he'll sort it out (not Keegan in disguise is he :) , mind you we dont have the prolific strike force he had )
 
Funky_Chicken said:
We’ll look much better defensively with Fry and McNair back in defence - two proper defenders. We just need someone else solid to go with them on the LCB position
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We probably would, but we'd also be hoofing the ball up to their centre-backs and having to defend a lot more of the time, as we would have the ball a lot less of the time. We would also be creating less chances, so wouldn't have the same number of goals going in the other end.

I like this way better, and it's got far better potential.

The only way Fry will come back in is if he starts playing how Wilder wants him too, and McNair won't be going back in at LCB unless it's an emergency.
 
The centre backs and the lack of a mobile DMC are the problem. Agree that Bola and Dijksteel are decent players, but not up to the job being asked of them. That is compounded by Howson not really being a DMC. And that is compounded by the loss of Tav's ridiculous level of off the ball work for the team.
 
The Boro UC said:
I think we've failed to win all 3 league games just because of this though, how long can we keep battering teams with posession then gifting goals at the back. I like Wilder and hopefully he'll sort it out (not Keegan in disguise is he :) , mind you we dont have the prolific strike force he had )
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Well if Wilder has the success at Boro that Keegan had at Newcastle then I don't think I'd be complaining.
 
the question should be do both need to bomb forward plus the outer centrebacks at the same time or should one sit wing back sit deeper if the balls on the other wing.
 
Much rather have the dominant attacking team to watch rather than a potentially more solid cautious approach. A refreshing change to the Pulis, Woodgate and Warnock years. Even Karanka’s style of play wasn’t as attractive, albeit successful.
As Wilder said, he needs to keep the player’s confidence and belief up and hopefully results will follow. Let’s see where we are after 10 games.
 
Sorry. I haven't read any of the previous posts yet so I may very well be repeating what others have already posted.

My limited understanding of the wing back system is one of the centre backs fills the holes left behind when the wing back gets forward. Thats why we play with 3 centre halves. So if Giles goes up the pitch the LCB, usually Bola will cover. If Jones goes up the pitch the RCB, usually Djiksteel should cover. However, we often seem to push both players forward which leaves us short of defenders at the back. Quite often Djiksteel will push up the pitch with Jones and play triangles with Crook's.

So I don't necessarily think the wing backs are the problem per se but pushing the LCB and RCB forward with them causes us problems. That said Stoke's second goal yesterday had nothing to do with this. It was simply down to rank bad defending not picking up players in the box.
 
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Save for Stoke's late equaliser last night this post wouldn't exist I think it's fair to say.

No system us perfect and every one has strengths and weaknesses, with varying degrees of risk and reward.

CW prefers this system and its given him great success, plus its tried and tested and well practiced, so it indisputably works.

We loomed a good team last night, but it's individual mistakes that are costing us - no system can guard against that.

Add a stronger forward or two, a LCB that will shore up the left a bit and maybe a holding midfielder too and we'll be a very strong team for sure.
 
Jonny Ingbar said:
Save for Stoke's late equaliser last night this post wouldn't exist I think it's fair to say.
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Or the goal they got from the blatant hack on Jones, if they hadn't got their first goal we would have been easily ahead by Half Time, and could have set up better second half to do what we wanted to do.

We were really unlucky and didn't get what we deserved, and the problem is it's been the same the last three games, hopefully, our luck changes around and we get what we do deserve, plus some wins when we probably shouldn't.

A top striker would be having a field day in this side, rubbing their hands at another game with the prospect of Jones and files service, there are free goals available every game.
 
Glover_elbow said:
the question should be do both need to bomb forward plus the outer centrebacks at the same time or should one sit wing back sit deeper if the balls on the other wing.
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This is actually one of the things karanka employed when at boro. He had an attacking winger and a defensive winger

It was normally downing doing the defensive work and this board give downing pelters for it.

I would say the average fan doesn’t understand the intricacies the manager is asking players to do and we work of our lien assumptions of how we think the game would be played
 
The problem is that we don't have many 'penalty box' defenders, we are accomodating Dijksteel and Bola in the team due to their mobility and ability to play the wide centre back role that Wilder likes in his 3-5-2 set up but neither are especially good at defending the penalty area and especially aerially , they are essentially full backs playing as centre backs

I think he should have shored it up yesterday toward the end and Put McNair, Fry and Leninhan as the back 3 with Smith who is 6ft plus as the right wing back to give us a more solid base to defend the inevitable direct style of play stoke would adapt with nothing to lose
 
Gunslinger said:
The problem is that we don't have many 'penalty box' defenders, we are accomodating Dijksteel and Bola in the team due to their mobility and ability to play the wide centre back role that Wilder likes in his 3-5-2 set up but neither are especially good at defending the penalty area and especially aerially , they are essentially full backs playing as centre backs

I think he should have shored it up yesterday toward the end and Put McNair, Fry and Leninhan as the back 3 with Smith who is 6ft plus as the right wing back to give us a more solid base to defend the inevitable direct style of play stoke would adapt with nothing to lose
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There's certainly a difference with his Blades side.

Both LCB and RCB were first and foremost CBs in that system. Yes, they could bomb forward and support attacks but they were also used to playing as CBs in a three. Bola and Djiksteel don't have that luxury I'm afraid. They're full backs learning the role of CB and, at times, it has shown.

Of course the attacking side of that position may be reigned in by replacing them with CBs but it's all about the balance of the side I guess.
 
GazC_MFC said:
This is actually one of the things karanka employed when at boro. He had an attacking winger and a defensive winger

It was normally downing doing the defensive work and this board give downing pelters for it.

I would say the average fan doesn’t understand the intricacies the manager is asking players to do and we work of our lien assumptions of how we think the game would be played
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we dont have to have designated defensive and offensive wing backs they can just take turns being a bit more sensible. saying that liverpool have flying fullbacks and only two centrebacks but they gamble on the likes of VVD in one on one situations, unfortunately i think lenihan is too slow to be left isolated.
 
Liverpool always have Fabinho sat deep as well almost like a sweeper of midfield other 4 when attacking,
i.e. Trent, Henderson, Keira, and Robertson
Think Howson goes a lot further forward than the role Fabinho plays for Liverpool, maybe that is our problem .
 
davidmills said:
Liverpool always have Fabinho sat deep as well almost like a sweeper of midfield other 4 when attacking,
i.e. Trent, Henderson, Keira, and Robertson
Think Howson goes a lot further forward than the role Fabinho plays for Liverpool, maybe that is our problem .
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Yep, noted this on the Howson thread. If both WBs and even one CB is pushing forward we really need someone to sit in that position. Granted it might not be Howson's most suitable role - it's one of the reasons I was pushing for Chaudry earlier in the window.

Did Crooks play that role well for Warnock? Sure I remember him starting there a few times.
 
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