France & Germany heading into national lockdown

MolteniArcore

Active member
So what's your plan, slow the spread then what? Or stop the spread?

The ship has long since sailed to make my plan effective. Boris put pay to that when he forced everyone out of lockdown early. Unfortunately now we reap what he sowed and the only thing that’ll stop it now is another national lockdown. Then he’ll panic, force us out early again, the public will get even more disillusioned and repeat until we get a vaccine.

He‘s screwed us all.
 

Barnsy

Well-known member
Definately coming to us.

The Xmas thing gets right up my nose tho.
The Chinese cancelled their New Year Celebrations
The Irish cancelled St Patrick’s day
The Muslim world cancelled Haj (Xmas on speed)
We cancelled eid for 000s of muslims here. (basically the equivalent of xmas eve)

This virus is either serious or not.
We really gonna risk it for Prosecco, a dry turkey and a family argument.

Well done to the Irish, above and beyond the call of duty that. 🤔
Let's cancel St George's Day eh?
 

RandySavage

Well-known member
The ship has long since sailed to make my plan effective. Boris put pay to that when he forced everyone out of lockdown early. Unfortunately now we reap what he sowed and the only thing that’ll stop it now is another national lockdown. Then he’ll panic, force us out early again, the public will get even more disillusioned and repeat until we get a vaccine.

He‘s screwed us all.
How long would you have kept us in the original lockdown for?
Until X amount of jobs were lost for good?
Until X amount of mental health cases had been reached?
Until the virus was completely eradicated?
 

S7DiscoDown

Well-known member
So we lock down until 1st of December or even January. Then what? We open up to the stage we are now and the infection rate will fly up again.

What's the end game? Everytime we lockdown and open up the infection will shoot up. Also don't say vaccine as only 1 in 10 will get it.

It's the same question about watching football. When will grounds open? Nothings betting any better.
 

Alvez_48

Well-known member
3 claims in this thread are unfounded masks have stopped the flu, masks have slowed the spread and finally virus antibodies don't last long.

For flu reductions Google:- viral interference
For masks Google for a translation of this text:-https://www.berlingske.dk/videnskab/professor-stort-dansk-maskestudie-afvist-af-tre-top-tidsskrifter
And for antibodies :- https://t.co/BPeVUVbtqB?amp=1

You talk about a 2nd national lockdown on the first day that our infections have reduced on the 7 day average.

When advocating lockdowns remember this is not a death Vs money debate it's a death Vs death debate.

There is also the dubious nature of the current count of deaths which can be explored here:-

https://lockdownsceptics.org/how-covid-deaths-are-over-counted/

Hope everyone has a nice evening, you're all good people.👍🏻
 

JM14

Well-known member
Aye, looks like the masks, social distancing and other restrictions have done a grand total of **** all.
Mainly because people dont know how to follow simple instructions

To be fair the spread is much slower than wave 1
 

Chris_Boro

Well-known member
3 claims in this thread are unfounded masks have stopped the flu, masks have slowed the spread and finally virus antibodies don't last long.

For flu reductions Google:- viral interference
For masks Google for a translation of this text:-https://www.berlingske.dk/videnskab/professor-stort-dansk-maskestudie-afvist-af-tre-top-tidsskrifter
And for antibodies :- https://t.co/BPeVUVbtqB?amp=1

You talk about a 2nd national lockdown on the first day that our infections have reduced on the 7 day average.

When advocating lockdowns remember this is not a death Vs money debate it's a death Vs death debate.

There is also the dubious nature of the current count of deaths which can be explored here:-

https://lockdownsceptics.org/how-covid-deaths-are-over-counted/

Hope everyone has a nice evening, you're all good people.👍🏻

Rather than Google and link whatever fits your narrative, why don't you put all that you've read and form your own opinion on what should be done and post that?

There's no way I'm clicking on any of those links.
 

Corcaigh_the_Cat

Well-known member
The ship has long since sailed to make my plan effective. Boris put pay to that when he forced everyone out of lockdown early. Unfortunately now we reap what he sowed and the only thing that’ll stop it now is another national lockdown. Then he’ll panic, force us out early again, the public will get even more disillusioned and repeat until we get a vaccine.

He‘s screwed us all.

Under pressure from his sponsors.
 

Centralscrutinizer

Well-known member
How long would you have kept us in the original lockdown for?
Until X amount of jobs were lost for good?
Until X amount of mental health cases had been reached?
Until the virus was completely eradicated?

If we had a competent government - Until the virus was supressed enough that an effective locally led test/track/trace system was in place and able to keep a lid on things. That was the only way out.
 

boroboy6872

Active member
@Alvez_48 Interesting links thank you.

I agree that viral interference will have an affect on the cases of flu, I`m not sure by how much in the end though and I`m still to be convinced that contracting covid is better than the flu.

I don`t think you can totally rule out the plus points for wearing a mask and your 2nd link is behind a paywall but I`ve found the text elsewhere (as below)

The researchers behind a large and unique Danish study on the effect of wearing a mask even have great difficulty in getting their research results published. One of the participating professors in the study admits that the still secret research result can be perceived as 'controversial'.

For weeks, media and researchers around the world have been waiting with increasing impatience for the publication of a large Danish study on the effect - or lack thereof - of wearing a mask in public space here during the corona pandemic.

Now, one of the researchers who has been involved in the study can state that the finished research result has been rejected by at least three of the world's absolutely leading medical journals.

These include The Lancet, The New England Journal of Medicine and the American Medical Association's journal JAMA.

"They all said no," says the professor, dr. with. and chief physician at the research department at North Zealand Hospital, Christian Torp-Pedersen.

However, the professor does not want to give the reasons for the journals.

"We can not start discussing what they are dissatisfied with, because in that case we must also explain what the study showed, and we do not want to discuss that until it is published," explains Christian Torp-Pedersen.

Outstanding study

The study was initiated at the end of April after a grant of five million kroner from the Salling Foundations. It involved as many as 6,000 Danes, half of whom had to wear masks in the public space over a long period of time. The other half was selected as the control group.

A large part of the test participants were employees of Salling Group's supermarkets: Bilka, Føtex and Netto.

The studio and its size are unique in the world, and the purpose was once and for all to try to clarify the extent to which the use of sanitary masks in public space provides protection against corona infection.

But if the Danish research result is truly "controversial", and if it is meant that no evidence has been found of any major infection-protecting effect of mask use in public space, it will be highly startling.

But of course it can not be ruled out that the three medical journals are of the opinion that the data base in the Danish study is deficient - that for example there are too few corona infected in the study to be able to draw unambiguous conclusions about the protective effect of masks against infection with the new virus.

In this connection, it is worth noting that the study was conducted at a time (predominantly in May), when the infection pressure in Denmark was falling sharply.

The study's spokesman and main author is professor of cardiology and chief physician at Rigshospitalet, Henning Bundgaard. He strongly emphasizes that he wants to be in charge of 'high-quality' research.

I`m not sure that`s a convincing study for the non use of masks and i`ll counter it with Physical interventions to interrupt or reduce the spread of respiratory viruses, which states (roughly 3/4 down the page -

These data suggest that wearing a surgical mask or a N95 mask is the measure with the most consistent and comprehensive supportive evidence. Seven out of eight studies included masks as a measure in their study and six out of seven of these studies found masks to be statistically significant in multivariable analysis. Handwashing was also included in seven of the studies with four studies showing handwashing to be statistically significant in multivariable analysis. All other measures were shown to be statistically significant in multivariable analysis on only one or two occasions.

I must say you have provided some good links on this subject along with a couple of others that adds to a very interesting conversation. I`m in no way knowlegeable on this but I do like to look at things from both sides, thank you again
 

Alvez_48

Well-known member
No worries @boroboy6872 I aren't really bothered about masks, I happily wear it when required and yes the true effect of viral interference cannot be guaranteed in terms of covid.

I just want rationality in the debate something that is depressingly missing from the media, the government and sage who love to leak nothing but fear. 👍🏻
 

JM14

Well-known member
What if that vaccine takes 10 years. Which @SmallTown with his knowledge in said area says is more likely for everybody not just key workers?
Most indications are that we will have some sort of vaccine next year though. If it was fairly conclusive we wouldn’t have a vaccine for ten years I’m sure the worldwide strategy would be very different.
 
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