First Crimea, next Ukraine?

r00fie1 said:
None of that [illiterate remarks about Max Bluementhal] stands up to factual scrutiny.
Which media platforms he appears on is irrelevant.
The use of derogatory term "darling" is patronising and ignorant.

Max provides excellent journalism on denial of Palestinian rights by the Zionisat apartheid state of Israel - which you wont find the BBC or large Capitalist media raising hysteria and faux outrage about.

Opinion and analysis

electronicintifada.net electronicintifada.net

The United Kingdom has been complicit in genocide against the Palestinians since 1948.
The genocide against a captive population is a war crime - with the complicity of the British Government and arms supplied by the Israeli - owned firm Elbit Systems - which "field - tests" its weapons on the Palestinians. These are made in Oldham, Bristol, Shenton, Brighton and Birmingham.

Before anyone conflates criticism of Israeli Apartheid and Genocide with anti-semitism, I strongly suggest you access the Jewish Voice for Labour website:
www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk

Jewish Voice for Labour

www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk
www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk

About us

JVL Statement of Principles Jewish Voice for Labour (JVL) is a Jewish-led organisation for members of the labour, trade union,…
www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk
....and understand that being anti-apartheid is not being a jew-hater. Israel does not represent all Jews. The voices of Jews who dont feel "uncomfortable" about BDS and the Anti-Apartheid Movement is never published - because it attacks the establishments support for the last colony in the Middle East.
Jewish Voice for Labour exists to fight genocide in Palestine.
Click to expand...
Illiterate, in what way exactly?

The thread is about Russia and China not Palestine, Israel or Jews.

Max Blumenthal's writing on Russia and China is dangerous putting it mildly.
 
Youngie said:
I didn’t say it was

their lack of membership doesn’t mean NATO wouldn’t respond

they responded in Bosnia and Kosovo and have also conducted operations against terrorism well away from the original remit.
Click to expand...

There was no genocide in Crimea so not really comparable to the Balkans, and the relatively bloodless takeover and historical context meant NATO were never going to interfere over that.

The current situations in Ukraine and Georgia with Russian military intervention is in part due to both those nations looking at NATO membership. Sanctions are the main weapon being utilised against Russia over Ukraine but NATO would be duty bound to respond if Russian tanks rolled into, for example, the Baltic states.
 
BoroFur said:
Illiterate, in what way exactly?

The thread is about Russia and China not Palestine, Israel or Jews.

Max Blumenthal's writing on Russia and China is dangerous putting it mildly
Click to expand...
As much as I value Max Bluementhal`s journalism, like other journalists, I dont concur with everything asserts.

The narrative in the New York Times / New Statesman / The Atlantic / Sky / Fox News / BBC - focuses 24/7 on "genocide" against a Muslim (!?) group by China.
I wish to point out that we are complicit in a 70+ year old genocide in Palestine and that we cant preach peace and point the finger at others before we get our own back yard in order.

The United States has a strategy of divide and control in the Ukraine and the Balkan states - by backing right wing Nationalist groups - including outright racists and nazi - holocaust denyer`s. Its a dangerous strategy - its got more to do with promoting its own Nationalist Isolationist Policies and the economic disaster on its own soil, than it has on promoting peace.
 
Smoggle said:
There was no genocide in Crimea so not really comparable to the Balkans, and the relatively bloodless takeover and historical context meant NATO were never going to interfere over that.

The current situations in Ukraine and Georgia with Russian military intervention is in part due to both those nations looking at NATO membership. Sanctions are the main weapon being utilised against Russia over Ukraine but NATO would be duty bound to respond if Russian tanks rolled into, for example, the Baltic states.
Click to expand...
Under pfp they would find it hard to justify not responding.

add to that the implications for neighbours in the region that are full NATO members (Black Sea trade, gas/oil lines etc)
 
Youngie said:
Under pfp they would find it hard to justify not responding.

add to that the implications for neighbours in the region that are full NATO members (Black Sea trade, gas/oil lines etc)
Click to expand...

Membership of PfP doesn’t mean members would be required to go to war for each other even if some members aspire to NATO membership. Russia is a member of PfP too, as well as being a nuclear power that we would always be wise not to push militarily until definite lines are crossed. Stronger sanctions (such as freezing of their assets and denying access to western financial institutions) against the oligarchic elite would really test their loyalty to Putin, certainly more than the current sanctions.

The Black Sea is crucial, Romania are the only reliable NATO member state active in the region... Bulgaria are loathe to provoke Russia and Turkey are notoriously unreliable with their own authoritarian leader, so you can bet your house that Russia is taking full advantage while the situation allows.
 
BoroFur said:
As far as I know Biden never said he would take down the wall. He said we wouldn't lay another brick or words to that effect. If you can find any report where he's quoted as saying he'll take the wall down please point it in my direction.

Work hasn't begun on the wall again. If you had any knowledge of construction contracts you'd realise the difficulties in terminating an $11bn contract for convenience part way through and the financial penalties of doing so.
As far as I'm aware, money has been sanctioned to plug gaps in the existing structure not to extend it.
Click to expand...
"Plugging gaps" is still continuing to build the wall.
You could have put Barney the Dinosaur up instead of Biden and he would still ha e beaten Trump.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss, just wears a different coloured tie.
 
Randy said:
Not yet....

It's clearly a strategic piece of land the Russians would love.
Click to expand...

Membership highly unlikely despite close relations, the risk of more conflict too great.

Putins aim of protecting Russian speakers as a pretext for military invasion certainly found favour with many extreme nationalists in Russia, but he’s been criticised by some of them for not going far enough, so the ongoing situation in Eastern Ukraine is unpopular to some of those for and against it in Russia. He’s always going to poke NATO and NATO pokes back, but war is not the desired outcome, hence why Russia has become adept at non conventional tactics like cyber warfare.
 
Smoggle said:
Membership highly unlikely despite close relations, the risk of more conflict too great.

Putins aim of protecting Russian speakers as a pretext for military invasion certainly found favour with many extreme nationalists in Russia, but he’s been criticised by some of them for not going far enough, so the ongoing situation in Eastern Ukraine is unpopular to some of those for and against it in Russia. He’s always going to poke NATO and NATO pokes back, but war is not the desired outcome, hence why Russia has become adept at non conventional tactics like cyber warfare.
Click to expand...
I think it's a little different this time, the poking. As I mentioned earlier the pandemic makes a convenient distraction.
 
Randy said:
"Plugging gaps" is still continuing to build the wall.
You could have put Barney the Dinosaur up instead of Biden and he would still ha e beaten Trump.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss, just wears a different coloured tie.
Click to expand...
Yet you conveniently ignore the fact that what you stated is an absolute crock of ****. "I heard that", "rumours about this". You must be so gullible taking in rubbish posted on twitter and the like which does not stand up to fact checking.

So I will ask you again. Show me some evidence that Biden said we would take down the wall. Then tell me how making safe gaps in an ongoing construction project constitutes re-commencing the building project commissioned by Trump.

You obviously don't rate Biden fair enough but stop posting ****.
 
Randy said:
Sure I read the wall he said he was going to take down hasn't been taken down yet. In fact work has began on it again. 👀

What does Joe do? Focus on Ukraine or Taiwan?
Click to expand...
Biden never said he was going to take down the wall, just that he wasn't going to add to it.

He can't actually stop some projects that have already started and for which the money has already been allocated. As mentioned in an Independent article on this:

Under the Impoundment Control Act, when Congress allocates money to a project, that project must be completed.
Click to expand...

Imagine the chaos if every time a new president came in, they could just cancel any ongoing projects they felt like.

One thing Biden could do (and did) was to cancel the state of emergency that Trump had decreed, which allowed the use of Defence Department funds for the wall.
 
Last edited:
BoroFur said:
Yet you conveniently ignore the fact that what you stated is an absolute crock of ****. "I heard that", "rumours about this". You must be so gullible taking in rubbish posted on twitter and the like which does not stand up to fact checking.

So I will ask you again. Show me some evidence that Biden said we would take down the wall. Then tell me how making safe gaps in an ongoing construction project constitutes re-commencing the building project commissioned by Trump.

You obviously don't rate Biden fair enough but stop posting ****.
Click to expand...
You are Joe Biden and I claim my five pounds. ,😏

Not once did I say the post was correct hence the "I heard" part of the sentence.

No wonder posters keep leaving here or reduce their post count dramatically when discussions are met with vitriolic responses. 👀
 
Liamo said:
Biden never said he was going to take down the wall, just that he wasn't going to add to it.

He can't actually stop some projects that have already started and for which the money has already been allocated. As mentioned in an Independent article on this:



Imagine the chaos if every time a new president came in, they could just cancel any ongoing projects they felt like.

One thing Biden could do (and did) was to cancel the state of emergency that Trump had decreed, which allowed the use of Defence Department funds for the wall.
Click to expand...
Cheers for the reasoned response Liamo. Astute as usual.

Do you think Biden will get involved in the crisis that's building in Ukraine?
 
Biden has done everything he could to stop the project with the 60 day review and removal of the emergency order.

he is now in a bit of a sticky situation with all because the review has highlighted the mess Trump left behind.

there are masses of building materials just left where they were dropped along with unfinished sections that are dangerous to leave.

one report even said they were using explosives to clear and area and they have now left that area at risk of landslides.

he has to make safe the work that is left but he wont be adding anything more to it.

as for taking it down completely... it’s impossible as most of what was built has been done in upgrade to what was already there... the actual of new sections (where nothing was there before ) only adds up to 80miles or so
 
Randy said:
You are Joe Biden and I claim my five pounds. ,😏

Not once did I say the post was correct hence the "I heard" part of the sentence.

No wonder posters keep leaving here or reduce their post count dramatically when discussions are met with vitriolic responses. 👀
Click to expand...
Don't be silly Randy.

You've got a bit of history when it comes to making disparaging comments, particularly about child migrants so don't come across all high and mighty with me.

You don't rate Biden, your call, but anybody who scours twitter all day for negative stories should at least do a little bit of fact checking particularly when tales like yours can so easily be de-bunked.
 
r00fie1 said:
As much as I value Max Bluementhal`s journalism, like other journalists, I dont concur with everything asserts.

The narrative in the New York Times / New Statesman / The Atlantic / Sky / Fox News / BBC - focuses 24/7 on "genocide" against a Muslim (!?) group by China.
I wish to point out that we are complicit in a 70+ year old genocide in Palestine and that we cant preach peace and point the finger at others before we get our own back yard in order.

The United States has a strategy of divide and control in the Ukraine and the Balkan states - by backing right wing Nationalist groups - including outright racists and nazi - holocaust denyer`s. Its a dangerous strategy - its got more to do with promoting its own Nationalist Isolationist Policies and the economic disaster on its own soil, than it has on promoting peace.
Click to expand...
The Chinese government is committing genocide and crimes against humanity through its wide-scale repression of Uighurs and other predominantly Muslim ethnic minorities in its north-western region of Xinjiang including in its use of internment camps and forced sterilization.

Max Blumenthal is acting like a puppet of the Chinese government in casting doubt on the veracity of claims made by independent observers.

He needs criticising for this and no amount of mitigation is acceptable.

Denying the Holocaust is a crime in a number of countries and regardless of what else he writes about other causes, be they good or bad in your opinion, there should be no defence of his views on the Chinese government's treatment of the Uighurs.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top